What's your estimated range with 100% SoC?

[Petzi]

@TomekGnomek claimed: "It’s simple I tested it during last winter with freezing temps - set the charge limit to 100%, departure time and climate control. Left the house with 98 or 96% because when I approached the car (about half an hour after scheduled departure time) it was heating without charging."

This forum should serve to provide useful information and experience reports. Unfortunately, it is full of strange claims that have nothing to do with the truth.

Since it has proven difficult to debate technical issues here in theory, I put these statements to the test in practice today:

I have a Turbo with approx. 8,000 km (50% highway / 50% city).

Yesterday evening I set the car to 100% charge with a departure time of 10:30 AM. Desired interior temperature 23C.

At 9:45, the vehicle was 100% charged. This left approximately 45 minutes to prepare the battery for departure and warm the interior to 23C, including seat heating.

Between 9:45 and 10:30, the vehicle was preconditioned and the charging station was in “pause” mode. The car resumed preconditioning until my real departure time at 10:45.

When I left at 10:45, the vehicle's charge level was still 100% after one hour preconditioning. At this point, the interior heating had been running for an hour and the battery had been preparing for departure. (Outside Temp.: 16C, battery temp 22C)

Conclusion: 1 hour of preconditioning of the battery and interior did not result in any energy consumption by the vehicle battery.

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[EvSwimmers]

@TomekGnomek claimed: "It’s simple I tested it during last winter with freezing temps - set the charge limit to 100%, departure time and climate control. Left the house with 98 or 96% because when I approached the car (about half an hour after scheduled departure time) it was heating without charging."

This forum should serve to provide useful information and experience reports. Unfortunately, it is full of strange claims that have nothing to do with the truth.

Since it has proven difficult to debate technical issues here in theory, I put these statements to the test in practice today:

I have a Turbo with approx. 8,000 km (50% highway / 50% city).

Yesterday evening I set the car to 100% charge with a departure time of 10:30 AM. Desired interior temperature 23C.

At 9:45, the vehicle was 100% charged. This left approximately 45 minutes to prepare the battery for departure and warm the interior to 23C, including seat heating.

Between 9:45 and 10:30, the vehicle was preconditioned and the charging station was in “pause” mode. The car resumed preconditioning until my real departure time at 10:45.

When I left at 10:45, the vehicle's charge level was still 100% after one hour preconditioning. At this point, the interior heating had been running for an hour and the battery had been preparing for departure. (Outside Temp.: 16C, battery temp 22C)

Conclusion: 1 hour of preconditioning of the battery and interior did not result in any energy consumption by the vehicle battery.

So the real question is whether or not the charging station exited "pause" mode between 9:45 and 10:45.

 

[Petzi]

So the real question is whether or not the charging station exited "pause" mode between 9:45 and 10:45.

cant answer this. but i would assume that when the charging target is 100% and charging is “paused” the car will resume charging when the level drops below 100%. logic? the claim has been that “after 30 minutes of preconditioning the charging level has dropped to 96%” not? i did preconditioning for one hour. no drop.
i had not the time to wait several hours to see what will happen. (but i would guarantee that the car would resume charging).
but every macan owner can test it as long your charger does not switch of.

 

[de0xyrib0se]

cant answer this. but i would assume that when the charging target is 100% and charging is “paused” the car will resume charging when the level drops below 100%. logic? the claim has been that “after 30 minutes of preconditioning the charging level has dropped to 96%” not? i did preconditioning for one hour. no drop.
i had not the time to wait several hours to see what will happen. (but i would guarantee that the car would resume charging).
but every macan owner can test it as long your charger does not switch of.

Will let everyone know in the AM, charging now. If I turn on precondition at full charge and it starts pulling from the charger while at the same time not using battery then case closed.

Either way keeping it plugged in on cold mornings is better than not having it plugged in.

 

[TomekGnomek]

You dont have to use scheduled departure to test it - just plug the car, run the climate control from your app and see if it starts getting any power from the charger. Mine does not, I just checked again. Scheduling a departure tome makes it in fact a bit more complicated as there are more factors in play.

Also running preconditioning from +16C outside to +22C inside is nothing and it very well may use <1% after an hour. There is also NO preconditioning of the battery in these temps with home AC charching, there is no need for it. I mentioned this was a problem for me in freezing temps where you have to heat the car from -10C to +20C and is uses significant amount of power over an hour.

 

[Petzi]

You dont have to use scheduled departure to test it - just plug the car, run the climate control from your app and see if it starts getting any power from the charger. Mine does not, I just checked again. Scheduling a departure tome makes it in fact a bit more complicated as there are more factors in play.

Also running preconditioning from +16C outside to +22C inside is nothing and it very well may use <1% after an hour. There is also NO preconditioning of the battery in these temps with home AC charching, there is no need for it. I mentioned this was a problem for me in freezing temps where you have to heat the car from -10C to +20C and is uses significant amount of power over an hour.

i do not think that this is the correct test. i would assume that you need a charging target. i do not think that the car just starts charging. my chargers would also not permit it. the only correct test is to start a charging session until the car reaches the desired state of charging and pauses charging while you start to use energy and than see if the car resumes charging.

 

[TomekGnomek]

i do not think that this is the correct test. i would assume that you need a charging target. i do not think that the car just starts charging. my chargers would also not permit it. the only correct test is to start a charging session until the car reaches the desired state of charging and pauses charging while you start to use energy and than see if the car resumes charging.

I don't agree. My whole point is - in extreme weather conditions when you leave your car plugged in and would like to run a climate control it should not waste the battery charge but draw power from the charger. This is the way it works with Teslas, they prioritize drawing power from the charger instead of the battery - which is good design. Any other design is bad design and there is no need for further discussion.

 

[Petzi]

I don't agree. My whole point is - in extreme weather conditions when you leave your car plugged in and would like to run a climate control it should not waste the battery charge but draw power from the charger. This is the way it works with Teslas, they prioritize drawing power from the charger instead of the battery - which is good design. Any other design is bad design and there is no need for further discussion.

”no further discussion “? ok but one question; do teslas have a heatpump?

 

[de0xyrib0se]

You dont have to use scheduled departure to test it - just plug the car, run the climate control from your app and see if it starts getting any power from the charger. Mine does not, I just checked again. Scheduling a departure tome makes it in fact a bit more complicated as there are more factors in play.

Also running preconditioning from +16C outside to +22C inside is nothing and it very well may use <1% after an hour. There is also NO preconditioning of the battery in these temps with home AC charching, there is no need for it. I mentioned this was a problem for me in freezing temps where you have to heat the car from -10C to +20C and is uses significant amount of power over an hour.

You are correct, the car does not use the charger, at least not under my conditions.

Conditions:

Outside: 10C
Target: 22C
Precondition ran for 12 minutes.

Result:

Vehicle did not use the charger. The battery did not drop as well, which indicates very efficient energy use by the climate system (heat pump). Given the biggest energy use is during the initial warmup I expected at least some drop in the first 10 minutes.

Will test it for an hour, but I suspect unless the outside temp is significantly lower (<5C) I wont see much of a difference in battery levels.

Regardless the vehicle should prefer the grid over the battery and it does not.

Guessing it tops up if there is a significant battery drop.

 

[Yves]

I cannot believe there are 2 ways the heating works, it will always run from the HV battery … some cars will get the onboard charger running at the same time and some cars will charge the battery up to the setpoint charge level and others will drain the HV battery, without starting the onboard charger. To test this you need extreem conditions … like 0C outside and 22C pre conditioning to see anything going on reliable …

My 100% charge in mild temperatures with summer to winter tires 20 inch for a Turbo vary between 500 and 550km when driving 50-50 highway (125km/h when possible) and b-roads (70km/h)
I typically charge to 80% as this also reflects roadtripping capabilities and this will me around 325km of highway range when keeping battery between 80-10% with an initial departure range of 400km … so for a 1000km trip that means 2 stops of 20 minutes …

 

[TomekGnomek]

You are correct, the car does not use the charger, at least not under my conditions.

That was my point. I agree this is not an issue with mild climate but it becomes an issue in freezing winter temperatures when it takes a lot of energy to warm up the car. It does not - at least not in my case - recharge once the battery drops after using a climate control for a while and you depart with 98, 96% of the battery.

”no further discussion “? ok but one question; do teslas have a heatpump?

Yes they do.

 

[Sirium]

 

[de0xyrib0se]

That was my point. I agree this is not an issue with mild climate but it becomes an issue in freezing winter temperatures when it takes a lot of energy to warm up the car. It does not - at least not in my case - recharge once the battery drops after using a climate control for a while and you depart with 98, 96% of the battery.



Yes they do.

I managed to get to the bottom of this.

The car *does not* utilize the charger unless the battery drops by two percentage points, at which point it starts to pull from the charger trying to replenish the battery.

From a design standpoint it is what it is, and the engineers made a design choice for whatever reason, but the smarter solution would have been to not discharge the battery and then replenish it but pull straight from the charger, which is what MB does, for example. If it were pulling from the charger then you don't have to wait for the battery to recoup the lost charge, and you leave with whatever percentage your battery was at to start with as soon as you decide to depart. Current design means the user has to wait.

It can be mitigated, I guess with a pre-set departure time and gunning the charger at 11kW to recoupe the lost charge.

 

[sor]

Not to derail the tangent… but

Altitude factors in as well. At my altitude the atmospheric drag is 13.8% lower than at sea level, resulting in slightly higher efficiency. At speed roughly 2/3 of vehicle efficiency is based on drag (the rest being drivetrain, rolling resistance, heating, cooling, etc), so my range numbers and efficiency may be around 9% better than sea level analogs.

 

[sor]

I don’t have schematics of course, but I would suspect even the Teslas and MB power the conditioning through the HVDC system and battery sourced. The difference is likely just in when they start backing the HVDC with the AC wall connector - immediately vs when the battery depletion is noticeable. Otherwise, if there is a dedicated AC ->DC circuit for wall connector to power the conditioning it would mean extra hardware, fuses, etc.

There are pros and cons to both methods, it’s a bit of a tempest in a teapot to complain about 1-2% but I understand why it is annoying for someone who wants to prioritize max charge over anything else.

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