So called Driver Aid

[Wivenhoe]

What Car are a respected car review magazine & video site. This video is clear evidence that so called driver aids can be and are dangerous when being over cautious. Mercedes defence of its emergency stop is really desperate.
This video is a little long but I think it demonstrates the issue really well and confirms what most modern car owners already know.

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[PrudentOcean]

It seems at least plausible that the car recognized a human face directly in front of the moving vehicle and performed an emergency stop. But that doesn’t explain the second incident that occurred under completely different circumstances.

Unfortunately these systems are foisted on us by law, and the manufacturers are going to err on the side of caution so they don’t fail the tests of their driver aids or get sued for failing to stop.

 

[pm4s]

This would not have happened with the Macan as it mowed down the pedestrian emerging behind parked cars (1:55):

I have seen other cars slam on the anchors and manage to stop.
I believe this is what happened to the merc, the camera car with a man strapped in the boot facing the merc suddenly cut across and in front of the merc, merc performed emergency stop, car glued to its rear bumper did not have enough time to react, 3rd car stopped in time as had more time to react.

 

[Wivenhoe]

The video also talks about a similar incident before, when it emergency braked despite the car in front being a good distance ahead. As the guy in the video said - it’s hard to imagine a system identifying a face as a pedestrian about 2’ from the ground.

 

[PrudentOcean]

it’s hard to imagine a system identifying a face as a pedestrian about 2’ from the ground.

It could be a small child. That's far more likely than a guy sitting in the cargo area with the tailgate open.

 

[pm4s]

ADAS works for children as well as adults. In the case of children it is even more sensitive as children behave erratically, run in all directions, jump, etc. ADAS also works for infants, so you can be crawling on the ground, sitting, jumping from/under a parked car, etc.
AEB detected a face, limp, posture (sitting, bending, etc.) and kicked in, we weren’t there, we don’t know what the man looked like or what he was doing at the time when the car cut in front.
The fact is pedestrian detection was recorder at time of crash so there is no refuting that.
Obviously the system can be tricked otherwise all those NCAP tests with the “cardboard” dummies and “blown up” cars wouldn’t work.
This is what happened here car was tricked.
If you don’t like this you can reduce the sensitivity, my VW has 3 levels if I remember.

 

[jwatte]

If you don’t like this you can reduce the sensitivity, my VW has 3 levels if I remember.

My Audi GT / J1 had sensitivity settings for the collision warning/emergency braking, but the Macan does not.
And, boy, is the collision warning sensitive! I haven't had a false positive braking yet, luckily, but the red circle and chime is a constant menace, and the only settings that can be adjusted are for "warnings" (the yellow triangle) and such -- I've already set those to the least sensitive, and it doesn't help.

 

[Wivenhoe]

The video clearly shows that the car didn’t cut in front. They were in a line and the important fact is that the leading car was moving away, not braking nor entering the ‘danger zone’. These are supposed to be ‘aids’ not cause an accident. The guys on the video stress that they have made hundreds of videos with the lead car having a guy in the boot and nothing like this has happened before. The Merc’s system is just too sensitive - if it had been set to maximum sensitivity I’m sure they would have said. I believe that it is not possible to change the sensitivity of the emergency braking on any car, you can only change the other system sensitivity.

Does anyone believe that if the car was under the control of the driver the whole time he would have emergency braked. Those that welcome such a sensitive system slamming on the brakes in front of them in open roads I hope they are not following in a car with less sensitive systems.

They specifically said that Mercedes couldn’t find anything in the logs to confirm what caused it to emergency brake - the supposition it sensed a child was Mercedes only guess at what may have caused it.

The difference between say the Macan and the Merc is that the Merc didn’t provide any warning, just slammed on the brakes.

As the Macan and other less sensitive emergency stop systems pass the safety tests with no issues means that the Merc’s system is too sensitive.

The reason I posted this originally was to show that driven cars are at a danger from system driven cars - between these systems and speed limiters it is going to be chaotic when driverless cars are prevalent and slamming their brakes on for no good reason.

 

[pm4s]

The car clearly cut in front of the Merc as it was driving on the wrong side of the road, taking pictures. The delay in the system is the same you see when using Adaptive cruise control. If a car cuts in front of me the last minute the gap closes significantly before the car realizes this (too late I might add) and applies the brakes forcefully.

Of course you can change the sensitivity, its called Front Assist on my ID.3, and has the following levels:
early, late, medium, off
Mine is on early, no issues although I drive sensibly, if I see people standing on the side of the road ready to cross, I won't accelerate, if I see a car merging I'll back off, etc.

AEB did not cause the crash, it was the driver riding the bumper of the merc.
Merc could have braked for a number of reasons, animal, debris, etc. you should always leave a safe distance.
Yes these are motoring journalist so of course the laws do not apply to them.

Regarding the other incident the journalist refers to since there was no crash there is no data stored unlike the filmed crash.
The incident involved 2 cars merging on the highway and the journalist instead of slowing down continued unfazed as he calculated that the cars were not in a collision course. This is simply bad driving and the system saw it like that. I see people merging all the time which looks like death diving. Sure missing a car by a couple of feet when merging is considered fine by many but the system sees2 cars approaching dangerously it will intervene.

If you see several NCAP tests there are several scenarios that car is trained on, car to car collision avoidance is one of them.
Obviously system is not perfect but neither are drivers, otherwise we would have no accidents.

Drive sensibly you will never activate the systems, people who complain about these systems are those that drive over the speed limit, tailgate, straddle lanes, switch lanes without indicating, treat the road as a track, etc. etc.

The systems are there to save you when you act stupid as I did when backing up on the pavement (sidewalk) and used only my mirrors, there was a white lamppost slap bang in the middle, car saved it self by activating maneuver braking, lamp post could have easily been a person/child.

 

[SuperH]

OMG this is a sore subject for me this month!

Those who have been on this forum for while will probably know my profile name well for being the moaning woman who complains about the sensitivity of the emergency breaking on the Macan. I get collision warnings flash up pretty much every journey - going round a bend with cars parked in the pavement, pedestrians at the side of the road, apparently a pedal cyclist doing 70 mph on the motorway one evening (what the hell?), nothing at all in front of me… all sorts. It’s also done two full on emergency stops - one at a traffic roundabout with no cars in front of me at the roundabout, and another which was sudden enough to give me mild whiplash - when a vehicle turning off the road ahead of me had fully made their turn and started to drive off (thankfully no one rear ended me on either occasion, but I did need to see my osteopath to sort out my resultant neck issues). It’s not my driving style (before anyone mentions women drivers lol) as I don’t get any warnings from the same system when regularly driving my husband’s Taycan Turbo S. My husband was also in the car for one of the false emergency stops and was just as surprised as I was at what happened.

So that’s annoying enough, as when I mentioned it to my dealer when it went in for a host of other issues they said there was nothing they could do about it (I was hopeful it might have been resolved in the big software comparing being rolled out at present).

However - the most annoying thing, and the reason I’m now definitely looking for an alternative car, is that I had a minor crash in my Macan two weeks ago after narrowly missing being forced off the road by two speeding police cars and clipped the rear drivers side corner of a parked car at around 23 mph (it was all on dash cam) AND THE BLOODY COLLISION WARNING AND EMERGENCY STOP DIDNT EVEN TRIGGER! I know that ultimate responsibility for driving the car is with me, and I accept that so no need to quote that, but I just can’t trust a car that does random emergency stops for no reason, then doesn’t even try to stop in an actual ‘emergency’. Bloody thing.

I’m a bit gutted though having watched this video, as my current choice of Macan alternative was going to be the new Merc GLC EV

 

[Wivenhoe]

The car clearly cut in front of the Merc as it was driving on the wrong side of the road, taking pictures. The delay in the system is the same you see when using Adaptive cruise control. If a car cuts in front of me the last minute the gap closes significantly before the car realizes this (too late I might add) and applies the brakes forcefully.

Im sorry, but the car didn’t cut in front at the last minute - it left far more distance than most drivers do when they overtake and accelerated away.

Of course you can change the sensitivity, its called Front Assist on my ID.3, and has the following levels:

Apologies, I read a report that said the EU didn’t allow that - it and I must be wrong.

AEB did not cause the crash, it was the driver riding the bumper of the merc.
Merc could have braked for a number of reasons, animal, debris, etc. you should always leave a safe distance.

I don’t think the video shows the car riding the bumper. If it had have been then What Car (a highly reputable magazine) wouldn’t attempt to blame the system I assure you. I admit I wouldn’t have been any further behind. On a clear road where I live with cars behind they would inevitably overtake as the cars were travelling at 30mph on a road with a 60mph limit.

Yes these are motoring journalist so of course the laws do not apply to them.

That is an inane comment and ignores the fact they were driving well below the speed limit, in dry conditions with excellent visibility

Regarding the other incident the journalist refers to since there was no crash there is no data stored unlike the filmed crash.

Listen again - there was no log of the cause of the crash. Mercedes guessed it was caused by the cameraman in the other car. They stressed no other car had slammed the brakes on in the same circumstances. Are you saying the guy lied about the earlier incident ?

The incident involved 2 cars merging on the highway and the journalist instead of slowing down continued unfazed as he calculated that the cars were not in a collision course. This is simply bad driving and the system saw it like that. I see people merging all the time which looks like death diving. Sure missing a car by a couple of feet when merging is considered fine by many but the system sees2 cars approaching dangerously it will intervene.

I suggest you look again, the car merging was accelerating away so why would the driver need to brake., never mind slamming on the brakes. There was never a chance of the Merc colliding with the camera car. You also ignore the point that there was no warning or opportunity to intervene.

Drive sensibly you will never activate the systems, people who complain about these systems are those that drive over the speed limit, tailgate, straddle lanes, switch lanes without indicating, treat the road as a track, etc. etc.

None of that applied here - that is the whole point of the video.

The systems are there to save you when you act stupid as I did when backing up on the pavement (sidewalk) and used only my mirrors, there was a white lamppost slap bang in the middle, car saved it self by activating maneuver braking, lamp post could have easily been a person/child.

Not at all relevant.

i do hope that you are not following a CLA when it totally unexpectedly and without cause slams the brakes on.

 

[jwatte]

Of course you can change the sensitivity, its called Front Assist on my ID.3

Where on the *Porsche macan EV* do you set this?

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