⚡️ Home Charging Issues after Software Update? (Tracking Thread)

[dgkhn]

It's worse than that. It used to work, and it appears that the update broke it. They must know what was changed. It was not a problem for two years, and suddenly there are multiple reports after the update. How hard can it be to figure this out?

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[daveo4EV]

It's worse than that. It used to work, and it appears that the update broke it. They must know what was changed. It was not a problem for two years, and suddenly there are multiple reports after the update. How hard can it be to figure this out?

it does however mean they have to issue a new update and then reapply the update to every car that has already received the "bad" update…this is a costly process for Porsche - made more costly by the fact they do not have OTA updates (this sort of problem is IDEAL candidate for an OTA update - i.e. something simple and non-controversial and affects the entire fleet and needs to be fixed "behind the scenes")…too bad they can't do OTA updates.

there are several steps - most of which have built in organizational/institutional/corporate resistance:

1. admit there is a problem. <---- I believe the process is currently "stuck" here…
2. investigate the problem
3. identify the problem
4. convince management that they _MUST_ fix this problem - i.e. they can't just "leave it be"
5. come up with a fix for the problem that doesn't make things worse
6. test the fix and make sure it doesn't break anything else
7. package the fix and document the installation process
8. pay for the shop labor to provide this fix 'free of charge' to all existing owners
9. calculate the costs to provide the fix "fleet wide" - and get mgmt. to sign off on the cost

until Porsche (and in particular PCNA) gets past step #1 nothing will happen - there has to be enough pain to overcome the costs of the fix - until they have to start buying back vehicle's there is _NO PAIN_…and given this is not a universal "fault" and varies regionally and seasonally and hourly - it's a reasonability subtle failure that _COULD_ affect the entire fleet, but does not necessary affect the entire fleet at any given moment…corporates/institutions don't do nuance - this is a very nuanced problem they have introduced - I can simply imagine the meetings going over this…

Manager: how many customers are affected?​

Engineering/Customer Support: we don't know - it will vary based on grid conditions in certain regions.​

​

Manager: how often will customers encounter this problem?​

Engineer/Customer Support: it depend's on environmental factors…​

​

Manager: what causes the failure?​

Engineer/Customer Support: when a given customer's EVSE voltage is above/below value "V1 and V2".​

​

Manager: how often does that occur?​

Engineer/Customer Support: we don't know, and there is no way to know, it's nominal grid variations nation wide and regionally​

​

Manager: What happens if we don't do any fix?​

Engineer/Customer Support: some customers sometimes won't be able to charge their Macan EV's at some charging locations at difference times of the day or seasonally​

​

Manager: how often will this happen?​

Engineer/Customer Support: we don't know there is no way to quantify the impact in a reliable manner. Sometimes based on grid conditions our Macan EV will fail initial voltage checks and refuse to initiate a charging session.​

I think you can see that's a hard conversation for an institution that doesn't want to do a fix, and doesn't believe there is a problem in the first place.

I don't think we're past step #1 yet…and nothing is going to happen until we get past step #4…

we're stuck somewhere between steps 1-2 listed below…

 

[jergans]

it does however mean they have to issue a new update and then reapply the update to every car that has already received the "bad" update…

there are several steps - most of which have built in organizational/institutional/corporate resistance:

1. admit there is a problem
2. investigate the problem
3. identify the problem
4. convince management that they _MUST_ fix this problem - i.e. they can't just "leave it be"
5. come up with a fix for the problem that doesn't make things worse
6. test the fix and make sure it doesn't break anything else
7. package the fix and document the installation process
8. pay for the shop labor to provide this fix 'free of charge' to all existing owners
9. calculate the costs to provide the fix "fleet wide" - and get mgmt. to sign off on the cost

until Porsche (and in particular PCNA) gets past step #1 nothing will happen - there has to be enough pain to overcome the costs of the fix - until they have to start buying back vehicle's there is _NO PAIN_…and given this is not a universal "fault" and varies regionally and seasonally and hourly - it's a reasonability subtle failure that _COULD_ affect the entire fleet, but does not necessary affect the entire fleet at any given moment…corporates/institutions don't do nuance - this is a very nuanced problem they have introduced - I can simply imagine the meetings going over this…

I don't think we're past step #1 yet…and nothing is going to happen until we get past step #4…

we're stuck somewhere between steps 1-3 listed below…

I believe Porsche NA is aware of the issue. My service center had multiple Macans in for the same thing. They keep poking Porsche for a fix.

One possible issue: mine worked for a month following the update. I think others had the same experience. What happened to suddenly cause the failure?

 

[daveo4EV]

I believe Porsche NA is aware of the issue. My service center had multiple Macans in for the same thing. They keep poking Porsche for a fix.

One possible issue: mine worked for a month following the update. I think others had the same experience. What happened to suddenly cause the failure?

voltage change on the grid (which is expected and allowed and normal) …the problem is two fold - one controlled by porsche the other is environmental (like outside temperature)…

hypothetical problem: the update works fine at 50F, but fails once ambient temperature drops below 43F - as a hypothetical example…it won't fail until environmental conditions "test" the new limits…

grid voltage is an "environmental" factor - not a fixed value - it varies over time, region, location…the update changed the tolerance factors for "grid voltage"…

the update may start working again magically - just like a software change that will suddenly start working again when temperatures get warmer…

the reasonable speculation is the new update changes the acceptable voltage tolerances for starting a charging session…

until a given charging session "violates" the new voltage tolerances the update "will work"…it will only fail when the North American grid voltage now violates the updated tolerances in the new update…it may take a while for Porsche to "admit" the new tolerances are the problem.

Porsche has to admit there is a problem - otherwise this won't be fixed…

 

[toontoon]

Clearly the software update is an issue, at the very fucking least they could just roll it back but naah, they are Porsche, they won't take a common sense approach to this

 

[daveo4EV]

Clearly the software update is an issue,

I agree with you - but we need Porsche to reach the same conclusion before anything will happen…

this is the _CORE_ issue that Porsche will debate…they have yet to take responsibility for the problem - or even admit there is a problem…

NOTE: they are currently "blaming" out of tolerance grid voltage and claiming there is nothing they plan to do…

this not an organization taking responsibility or even admitting there is a problem…

 

[ColdCase]

I thought I read here last week that Porsche was sending an engineering team and test equipment to a problematic EU over voltage location to investigate.

 

[daveo4EV]

NOTE: there could be an issue at play here that Porsche is trying to manage…hear me out.

we know certain things - and a potential "core" issue is related to this thread…https://www.macanevowners.com/forum...ate-using-tesla-universal-wall-charger.18123/

1. We know that for some undisclosed reason they have neutered the North American Macan EV OBC to 9.6 kW charge rate in North America - even though they documented an 11 kW charge rate for nearly a year and the Macan does charge at 11 kW in other regions…
2. We also know they are neutering Taycan's to 9.6 kW maximum charge rate in North American - again there is an 11 kW max charge rate in other regions
   1. they are even neutering Taycan's via software update (undisclosed) when serviced - owners that previously could charge their Taycan's at 11 kW are bringing home serviced vehicle's that suddenly refuse to charge above 9.6 kW…no disclosure ore explanation from Porsche - and new Taycan's being sold are max 9.6 kW
3. We also know Porsche's has an abnormally high rate of failure for OBC's in their fleet with their 22/19.2 kW OBC's almost reaching joke status in terms of reliability…and the standard 11 kW OBC's while not an outright joke are known to fail…and at great cost out of warranty.

So let's posit that Porsche "knows" they have a problem when their OBC is pushed above 9.6 kW raw input power - and this engineering shortfall is causing abnormally high failures…and Porsche want's to keep the maximum charge rate under control to avoid high failure rates on their wonky OBC and it's delicate sensibilities…

well 240 volts * 40 amps is 9,600 watts - exactly the limit Porsche is apparently comfortable with for charging the Macan and updated Taycan's…

but 250 volt * 40 amps is 10,000 watts…and 252 volts * 40 amps is 10,080 watts…

hmmmmmm…

if we "know" prsoche doesn't like charge rates above 9,600 watts - they have put this fix in place to keep their fragile OBC from being overtaxed and leading to a large number of premature failures…

what if the fix in place to clamp down on any charging sessions above 9,600 watts because Porsche has no faith their wimpy ass OBC can handle those sorts of loads…

that would be a more dicy problem for Porsche to "roll back"…cause it will lead to increased warranty claims…but unfortunately for them the range of charging rates based on ASNI standard is 228 volts to 252 volts - that's a range of 9,120 watts to 10,080 watts - and if Porsche doesn't "like" charge rates above 9,600 watts that lops off a whole range of legitimate grid voltage charging sessions…

what if they made this change to insulate/reduce warranty failures on their OBC, and now they are stuck with circumstances where they won't allow the car to charge "by design"....that would mean this fix was put in place to have an upper limit on max power for their finicky OBC, this is not a localization/regional problem (Porsche is not that stupid/sloppy typically) - it's a component failure rate mitigation fix - but it's had unanticipated outcomes - i.e. it prevents charging when grid voltage is "high" - and that may be exactly what it's designed to accomplish!

hmmmmmm…

what if this "change" is behaving exactly as Porsche intended…which is to avoid over-taxing their delicate OBC…

 

[daveo4EV]

I thought I read here last week that Porsche was sending an engineering team and test equipment to a problematic EU over voltage location to investigate.

maybe.

 

[daveo4EV]

NOTE: there could be an issue at play here that Porsche is trying to manage…hear me out.

we know certain things - and a potential "core" issue is related to this thread…https://www.macanevowners.com/forum...ate-using-tesla-universal-wall-charger.18123/

1. We know that for some undisclosed reason they have neutered the North American Macan EV OBC to 9.6 kW charge rate in North America - even though they documented an 11 kW charge rate for nearly a year and the Macan does charge at 11 kW in other regions…
2. We also know they are neutering Taycan's to 9.6 kW maximum charge rate in North American - again there is an 11 kW max charge rate in other regions
   1. they are even neutering Taycan's via software update (undisclosed) when serviced - owners that previously could charge their Taycan's at 11 kW are bringing home serviced vehicle's that suddenly refuse to charge above 9.6 kW…no disclosure ore explanation from Porsche - and new Taycan's being sold are max 9.6 kW
3. We also know Porsche's has an abnormally high rate of failure for OBC's in their fleet with their 22/19.2 kW OBC's almost reaching joke status in terms of reliability…and the standard 11 kW OBC's while not an outright joke are known to fail…and at great cost out of warranty.

So let's posit that Porsche "knows" they have a problem when their OBC is pushed above 9.6 kW raw input power - and this engineering shortfall is causing abnormally high failures…and Porsche want's to keep the maximum charge rate under control to avoid high failure rates on their wonky OBC and it's delicate sensibilities…

well 240 volts * 40 amps is 9,600 watts - exactly the limit Porsche is apparently comfortable with for charging the Macan and updated Taycan's…

but 250 volt * 40 amps is 10,000 watts…and 252 volts * 40 amps is 10,080 watts…

hmmmmmm…

if we "know" prsoche doesn't like charge rates above 9,600 watts - they have put this fix in place to keep their fragile OBC from being overtaxed and leading to a large number of premature failures…

what if the fix in place to clamp down on anti charging sessions above 9,600 watts because Porsche has no faith their wimpy ass OBC can handle those sorts of loads…

that would be a more dicy problem for Porsche to "roll back"…cause it will lead to increased warranty claims…but unfortunately for them the range of charging rates based on ASNI standard is 228 volts to 252 volts - that's a range of 9,120 watts to 10,080 watts - and if Porsche doesn't "like" charge rates above 9,600 watts that lops off a whole range of legitimate grid voltage charging sessions…

what if they made this change to insulate/reduce warranty failures on their OBC, and now they are stuck with circumstances where they won't allow the car to charge "by design"....that would mean this fix was put in place to have an upper limit on max power for their finicky OBC, this is not a localization/regional problem (Porsche is not that stupid typically) - it's a component failure rate mitigation fix - but it's had unanticipated outcomes - i.e. it prevents charging when grid voltage is "high" - and that may be exactly what it's designed to accomplish!

hmmmmmm…

what if this "change" is behaving exactly as Porsche intended…

an interesting test of this theory would be for anyone with an "adjustable" EVSE

plug the Macan in - see if fails to start a charging session with the EVSE set to 40 amps or above…

un plug the Macan

now adjust the EVSE (Porsche Mobile Charge Connect, Porsche Wall Charger, Tesla Wall Charger, or Chargepoint Flex) to 36 amps or lower - plug it in and see if you can initiate a charging session now…

you could do the same thing with the 50% button on the Porsche Mobile Charger+ or Porsche Universal Charger that came with North American Macan's…

maybe it's not voltage that's being managed - maybe it's total watts that would result from the charging session…this would explain _WHY_ the L1 charging "hack" works…

what if Porsche is calculating the max wattage given volts * amps - and they are limiting the max watts to avoid offending their delicate OBC?

if some one wanted to test my theory I'd lave to hear the results.

 

[Bauer83]

an interesting test of this theory would be for anyone with an "adjustable" EVSE

plug the Macan in - see if fails to start a charging session with the EVSE set to 40 amps or above…

un plug the Macan

now adjust the EVSE (Porsche Mobile Charge Connect, Porsche Wall Charger, Tesla Wall Charger, or Chargepoint Flex) to 36 amps or lower - plug it in and see if you can initiate a charging session now…

you could do the same thing with the 50% button on the Porsche Mobile Charger+ or Porsche Universal Charger that came with North American Macan's…

maybe it's not voltage that's being managed - maybe it's total watts that would result from the charging session…this would explain _WHY_ the L1 charging "hack" works…

what if Porsche is calculating the max wattage given volts * amps - and they are limiting the max watts to avoid offending their delicate OBC?

if some one wanted to test my theory I'd lave to hear the results.

Changing the amperage doesn’t work unfortunately. My charger can flex down to 6A from 40A and anywhere in between, and no changes for amperage lead to a successful handshake.

Also the car asks for 2As to start and then once the handshake is successful it ramps to 40A. At least that is what my charger tells me. It tries 2A, then 1A, then 0.5A and then just says charging process stopped.

 

[jergans]

My update:
The voltage regulator arrived this evening. Plugged it in to my “110v” outlet, set the voltage to 110v attached there Porsche charger to the regulator, and plugged it into the charge port on my car. . .
got the same unable to charge message and red lights. Dropped the voltage to 105v -same, to 100v -same. Then tried 97v and. . . car started charging - green lights all around. I unplugged the Porsche charger and replaced it with my Tesla 220v charger with adapter and all stayed green and charging went smoothly! Thanks to this forum and its great participants, I can survive the months it will take for Porsche to fix this software issue without having to head to distant DC chargers each week!!

Sandy

I tried this, followed every step and used the same regulator…to no avail.

Has anyone else done this successfully?

 

[SandyHaus]

So sorry to hear this didn't work for you. There are many posts in this and other threads in which this procedure has been successful. You might want to turn the car off and let the car sit overnight and try again in the morning. If no success I hope you can return the voltage regulator.

Sandy

 

[jergans]

So sorry to hear this didn't work for you. There are many posts in this and other threads in which this procedure has been successful. You might want to turn the car off and let the car sit overnight and try again in the morning. If no success I hope you can return the voltage regulator.

Sandy

My car has been sitting for a week. I’ll run it for a bit then try again. If there’s no solution, then it’s possible that the onboard charger is the culprit…which would explain why my car charged fine after the update, then stopped working all of a sudden.

 

[daveo4EV]

Changing the amperage doesn’t work unfortunately. My charger can flex down to 6A from 40A and anywhere in between, and no changes for amperage lead to a successful handshake.

Also the car asks for 2As to start and then once the handshake is successful it ramps to 40A. At least that is what my charger tells me. It tries 2A, then 1A, then 0.5A and then just says charging process stopped.

I appreciate the testing of my theory which has now been proven false - back to the drawing board as to why Porsche made this change...

thanks!!

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