Preconditioning & charging planner

[sor]

Yeah, that I think is the source of the info people are quoting about a rebalance procedure. The document itself doesn't imply it's a self-service way to rebalance, but at least mentions that it can occur.

1. drain
2. let sit awhile (6.5 hrs), and it even states a rebalance can occur at low SoC
3.charge completely
4. let sit again

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[pdealessandrini1930]

Yes, you absolutely can set a charging station as a destination. You can do that in the Navigation system as well.

Hi to All

Yes.

I do the same if / when I use the Porsche route planning app in the dashboard.

Provides route plan just like Google Maps, Waze, etc. but it also shows charge estimates at arrival at the charging venue and begins to pre heat the car battery (which of course consumes charge on the one hand but protects the battery from heat stress experienced when charging at a fast charging statio).

Yes. Doesn’t select the actual charger at destination charging venue as these are occupied or free based on actual traffic / other EV owners using location.

Nonetheless it works as expected noting that choosing a fast charging venue close to where we are located means the car battery won’t easily “preheat” to degrees (C/F) ideally targeted if the distance is near by.

When I travel 120 miles between two residences, the vehicle systems have plenty of time to warm up my battery. Otherwise short hops make time to heat too short.

Better than nothing though.

 

[TomekGnomek]

Had my usual business trip of 600 kms on highways with stops for fast charging along the way on Ionity 350kw chargers.

1) 10,5C outside, battery temp 16C after driving for 30 mins at 150kmh
2) battery temp started climbing to 26C about 20 mins before reaching the charger
3) at the charger (but before plugging in) the battery was at 34C and was at the upper range of optimal window - strange, there should be no need to go that high with preconditioning
4) charging started at 41% SoC and reached the peak of 188kw after one minute - strange, should be well over 200kw
5) the charging speed quickly started slowing down to 167kw at 56% SoC and went downhill from that - strange, the charging curve looked degraded due to battery temp as no fans were working
6) at the end I left the charger with 80% SoC and battery temp of 45C and ONLY THEN fans started working at full speed to cool the battery (after I disconnected the car from charging, they were silent during charging process)

This shows the software controlling this process is buggy and was not able to precondition the battery for maximum charging speed. The charger was empty, should easily provide 350kw.

Looks like:

1) it overheated the battery a bit during preconditioning
2) it did not run fans to cool down the battery during charging process which degraded charging speed
3) after disconnecting it engaged fans at full speed like trying to compensate for lack of cooling before

This is what I always get when I start charging at SoC higher than 20-30%. If this is the case I think given 3-4 charging sessions a week like this, the battery will start to degrade. Good it will not be my problem then

You can look at all the data below.

 

[Yves]

Had my usual business trip of 600 kms on highways with stops for fast charging along the way on Ionity 350kw chargers.

1) 10,5C outside, battery temp 16C after driving for 30 mins at 150kmh
2) battery temp started climbing to 26C about 20 mins before reaching the charger
3) at the charger (but before plugging in) the battery was at 34C and was at the upper range of optimal window - strange, there should be no need to go that high with preconditioning
4) charging started at 41% SoC and reached the peak of 188kw after one minute - strange, should be well over 200kw
5) the charging speed quickly started slowing down to 167kw at 56% SoC and went downhill from that - strange, the charging curve looked degraded due to battery temp as no fans were working
6) at the end I left the charger with 80% SoC and battery temp of 45C and ONLY THEN fans started working at full speed to cool the battery (after I disconnected the car from charging, they were silent during charging process)

This shows the software controlling this process is buggy and was not able to precondition the battery for maximum charging speed. The charger was empty, should easily provide 350kw.

Looks like:

1) it overheated the battery a bit during preconditioning
2) it did not run fans to cool down the battery during charging process which degraded charging speed
3) after disconnecting it engaged fans at full speed like trying to compensate for lack of cooling before

This is what I always get when I start charging at SoC higher than 20-30%. If this is the case I think given 3-4 charging sessions a week like this, the battery will start to degrade. Good it will not be my problem then

You can look at all the data below.

OMG that is rather bad.

Today I was at IONITY for the first time with my Porsche as I wanted to add a payment method, and the only way to do this is at the charger, only then you can add credit card …
Anyway that failed as plug and charge is active on my car and I did not even new that, I never set that one up, so it seems that was auto activated or I did activate it myself and never tested it and forgot about it.

Anyway I was at a to high charge at 50% but I never saw the 200kw … it was 130 as the battery was only 17C and reached 73% after 13 minutes and like 25C … 23% added

I hope the touch screens work as I needed to push start the second time I tried it as I was confused why the car started charging the first time (did not need to push start the first try)

So to add a payment method next time I will not connect the car …

Or can someone confirm I can use the Porsche app to scan the QR code to start the charging at IONITY?

 

[TomekGnomek]

Or can someone confirm I can use the Porsche app to scan the QR code to start the charging at IONITY?

Yes you can do that. I didn't try the QR code but did manage to start charging using the app (you go to nav -> chargers -> select charger -> select slot/port and there is an option to start charging).

 

[Yves]

Yes you can do that. I didn't try the QR code but did manage to start charging using the app (you go to nav -> chargers -> select charger -> select slot/port and there is an option to start charging).

Cool thanks, the reason I ask is that sometimes the touchscreens hang, but you can start charging via the App, good to know that you can start it via the Porsche app if for some reason the start button on the charger is not responsive ...

Just a sanity check will the charging with plug and charge start automatically? (as mentioned the first go I did not need to press start, but second time yes.)

 

[Yves]

Another data point arrived at charger with 7% and 22C so just not fully pre conditioned … got 250kw of power so pretty close to but not what I see when fully pre conditioned. And as already observed it stays on the curve. The battery did heat up rapidly this time.
Went from 7 to 47% or about 200km in 10 minutes, that is more then fast enough anyway.

 

[seabird]

As someone mentioned i n this thread colder batteries behave not in a predictable way … why do you not believe that I see 130kw between 15C and 22C in one charging session also observed by others

As stated many times, this is perfectly within the expected charging performance in those conditions. But the gap is more than just whether you spent 20 minutes preconditioning the battery.

There are many more variables involved. Preconditioning is 3kW of heating power. It cannot change your battery temperature by more than 10MJ or ~10C, and there is no place where that temperature difference will cause your battery to cut charging speed in half for the entire charging cycle. All of the math is here for you. Even your own test data confirms this, along with your ChatGPT post showing a 5-10% differential on range and battery cycle.

Yes, the first ~5 minutes are slower on the first charging stop of a multi-stop road trip. There's no "gotcha" moment in your cherry-picking a 40% charge at the peak of the curve and then unplugging just as the temperatures equalize. Nor in failing to account for the range lost by preheating that needs to be replaced by the first ~2 minutes of that faster charging. The net time saved on a 30-minute stop is less than five minutes. If you change that to a 5-minute stop, then yes, 5 minutes more on 5 minutes is twice as long. But why stop there? If you only stop for two minutes to charge, then the extra 5 minutes from failing to precondition can triple your charge time!

There's a reason that 10-80% charges and 30 minute stops are used for these reference values, notwithstanding your particular trip plan that conveniently has 300kW+ chargers close enough to allow you to charge only to 50-60% between stops, and that's to prevent the kind of dishonest comparisons you've set up.

It's also just for one charging stop. After that first stop, the battery is not going to cool down in the 2-3 hours before each subsequent stop, and the battery isn't going to need to heat back up again. So let's say we just give you your 10 minute vs. 20 minute claim.

You're dragging out this discussion, which is simply that DCFC destination preconditioning (not conditioning in general) doesn't actually matter that much on road trips, by essentially arguing that it's not 3-5 minutes, but actually 10 minutes, that it saves in a 10-hour drive. If you really feel that matters, then okay.

But saying one stop where you can charge in 10 minutes in perfect conditions that takes 20 minutes without preconditioning means that all of your charging stops on that trip take twice as long is simply, unequivocally false.

And it will not ramp up during that charging test due to heat generated by the charging as one would expect, this is also observed by other members on this forum …

Yes, of course it does. The battery temperature and the SOC determine the maximum charging rate. A battery at 50% SOC and 25C will charge at the same rate regardless of where the temperature was when plugged in.

What you're claiming as "not ramping up" is just the value of maximizing the 270kW portion of the charging curve, which exists from 10-31%. No temperature condition after that will allow for 270kW charging.

Why call my test unscientific …
- repeated with charging stations I know can deliver power
- repeated with both none pre conditioned and pre conditioned to warm battery

Because you are not isolating the variables. It took a monumental effort just to get you to understand that you needed to post the battery temperature and the starting and ending SOC, not just handwave around the time to deliver a certain number of kWh. And you're still projecting one experience at the first stop of the day to a total charging experience and not recognizing that preconditioned or not, your battery after one DCFC charge is ending up at the same temperature, which puts you well beyond the preconditioning window for the rest of that trip.

 

[MatC21]

Just a sanity check will the charging with plug and charge start automatically? (as mentioned the first go I did not need to press start, but second time yes.)

i always use P&C at all Ionity and Porsche Chargers. Always just plug it in and

On my last trip at 0 degrees I had a charging stop, arrived at 15%, battery was nicely heated and it charged with 270kw. So it can definitely work flawlessly.

 

[Petzi]

i always use P&C at all Ionity and Porsche Chargers. Always just plug it in and

On my last trip at 0 degrees I had a charging stop, arrived at 15%, battery was nicely heated and it charged with 270kw. So it can definitely work flawlessly.

you are right! it works perfectly for everyone that understands the charging philosophy of this car. (which has been excessively communicated from day one by porsche and in a endless row if independent tests). some people buy oranges although they like apples and than complain that the oranges do not taste like apples. it is annoying!

 

[Petzi]

it is hard to believe that there is still confusion about this. additional to the more or less same porsche tutorials for the taycan, the following has been published 8 months ago:

 

[MatC21]

I also dont understand the fuzz. I just drive and use the Porsche Navigation. When it tells me to charge I charge or replan using the app (if other stops are more concenient or I want to force certain chargers).
Apart from that I dont care about temperature or anything, I just trust the car to do the optimal thing given the weather/temperature etc.

And so far I always had great charging experiences.

 

[Petzi]

OMG that is rather bad.

Today I was at IONITY for the first time with my Porsche as I wanted to add a payment method, and the only way to do this is at the charger, only then you can add credit card …
Anyway that failed as plug and charge is active on my car and I did not even new that, I never set that one up, so it seems that was auto activated or I did activate it myself and never tested it and forgot about it.

Anyway I was at a to high charge at 50% but I never saw the 200kw … it was 130 as the battery was only 17C and reached 73% after 13 minutes and like 25C … 23% added

I hope the touch screens work as I needed to push start the second time I tried it as I was confused why the car started charging the first time (did not need to push start the first try)

So to add a payment method next time I will not connect the car …

Or can someone confirm I can use the Porsche app to scan the QR code to start the charging at IONITY?

why do you want „to add a payment method „ ? you get the preferred porsche rate by ionity and a bill once a month.

there is still confusion about charging: it does not matter how fast you are charging at any given moment of the process.

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