Porsche Pulls The Plug On EV’s

[Petzi]

porsche has the two best & fastest ev suvs on the market. they made the best possible given todays tech. there is no battery yet for the 911 (weight / size). that is all.

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[Wivenhoe]

TiLaSoul - your sentiments are admirable but unfortunately far too many people look at finance compared to climate change. I very much doubt the majority of people find the term econmentalists as hateful, when used to describe individuals that have very high ideals without thinking through the consequences. Or, believe everybody has the deep pockets necessary to realise their aims.

My point was that the governments mandated a date, removed subsidies and taxed EV’s and then were surprised the mandate would have just encouraged more people to buy ICE cars before 2030 and run them until 2045. They misled the European manufacturers into piling into EV’s and then pulled the rug and are now allowing a tidal wave of Chinese cars from one of, if not the biggest, polluter in the world. This is an extract from a recent article on China’s approach to climate change. - The country began building 94.5 gigawatts (GW) of new coal-power capacity and resumed 3.3GW of suspended projects in 2024, the highest level of construction in the past 10 years, according to the two thinktanks.

 

[Petzi]

TiLaSoul - your sentiments are admirable but unfortunately far too many people look at finance compared to climate change. I very much doubt the majority of people find the term econmentalists as hateful, when used to describe individuals that have very high ideals without thinking through the consequences. Or, believe everybody has the deep pockets necessary to realise their aims.

My point was that the governments mandated a date, removed subsidies and taxed EV’s and then were surprised the mandate would have just encouraged more people to buy ICE cars before 2030 and run them until 2045. They misled the European manufacturers into piling into EV’s and then pulled the rug and are now allowing a tidal wave of Chinese cars from one of, if not the biggest, polluter in the world. This is an extract from a recent article on China’s approach to climate change. - The country began building 94.5 gigawatts (GW) of new coal-power capacity and resumed 3.3GW of suspended projects in 2024, the highest level of construction in the past 10 years, according to the two thinktanks.

all true. but this is about porsche. its about fun & driving not about budget. if we talk budget nearly any other car makes more sense. no matter if ice or ev. there have always been much cheaper cars on the market than a ice porsche. there always will be.

 

[TiLaSoul]

very high ideals without thinking through the consequences

I believe the consequences of not having those high ideals are much worse...

Regarding the depth of people pockets, it's probably not something worth getting into on a forum for people who buy porches. However, my point stands; EVs will remain comparatively expensive over ICE until they're not. The more manufacturers are forced to wean themselves from ICE where development and manufacturing costs are low, the quicker they will fall.

Just look at the new iX3 - 109kWh usable in a car that costs the same as the last gen hybrid. Unthinkable even two years ago.

 

[FirstEV]

For the mass market, electric is the future with autonomous driving being one of the main selling points. Mercedes currently has the lead in autonomous driving and we will see how the new generation of cars compare. Batteries will get smarter, smaller and more powerful over time. Chinese EV's are currently highly subsidised and European car manufactures are hampered by high production costs. Delaying full electric, will give EU car manufactures breathing space as subsidising electric cars in China is unsustainable for 10+ years.

I believe the consequences of not having those high ideals are much worse...

Regarding the depth of people pockets, it's probably not something worth getting into on a forum for people who buy porches. However, my point stands; EVs will remain comparatively expensive over ICE until they're not. The more manufacturers are forced to wean themselves from ICE where development and manufacturing costs are low, the quicker they will fall.

Just look at the new iX3 - 109kWh usable in a car that costs the same as the last gen hybrid. Unthinkable even two years ago.

I share your sentiment, but I have a quarrel with people that keep talking about the new ix3 as a high quality benchmark. Yes, it is pretty good in range and charging. Although, something that isn’t spoken about is HOW they are actually going about to reach those WLTP measurements. BMW have clearly stated that you won’t be able to option air suspension, rear steer and I think not even insulated windows to keep the weight down. In other words it comes at an expense for that price tag.

 

[CHP]

I share your sentiment, but I have a quarrel with people that keep talking about the new ix3 as a high quality benchmark. Yes, it is pretty good in range and charging. Although, something that isn’t spoken about is HOW they are actually going about to reach those WLTP measurements. BMW have clearly stated that you won’t be able to option air suspension, rear steer and I think not even insulated windows to keep the weight down. In other words it comes at an expense for that price tag.

As you know, I am more interested in CPU infrastructure and software integration. Consumption for iX3 is 4.1 mi/kWh. My car reached same figures when it was collected ;-).

 

[TiLaSoul]

I share your sentiment, but I have a quarrel with people that keep talking about the new ix3 as a high quality benchmark. Yes, it is pretty good in range and charging. Although, something that isn’t spoken about is HOW they are actually going about to reach those WLTP measurements. BMW have clearly stated that you won’t be able to option air suspension, rear steer and I think not even insulated windows to keep the weight down. In other words it comes at an expense for that price tag.

Sure but I was mentioning it as an example of cost being brought down on battery size. Let's not forget that the last gen had 73kWh available and cost more. This is less expensive with +50% battery size.

That is a direct consequence of two things:

* Market competitiveness
* Regulatory pressure to develop more EVs

If either of these didn't exist, BMW (any all other legacy manufacturers) would continue running ICE vehicles into the ground until the very last drop of oil is extracted.

 

[FirstEV]

Sure but I was mentioning it as an example of cost being brought down on battery size. Let's not forget that the last gen had 73kWh available and cost more. This is less expensive with +50% battery size.

That is a direct consequence of two things:

* Market competitiveness
* Regulatory pressure to develop more EVs

If either of these didn't exist, BMW (any all other legacy manufacturers) would continue running ICE vehicles into the ground until the very last drop of oil is extracted.

Well, I do understand what you mean.
Although it isn’t that clear as you might think. Keep in mind that most of the German manufacturers get their drive trains and batteries from the same producer (Rimac), which is the one that sets the cost for the product and is dependent on how much they can scale in production to lower the cost in of it self. This isn’t due to BMW, but due to the market as a whole (which you said).

One other aspect to bear in mind is the following: When they remove many different options from the vehicle and prioritize battery, that doesn’t mean they’ve reached some kind of economic scale with the batteries. It could mean that they’ve downsized functions for the car to be able to have that lower price tag. I’ll leave it to the market to decide if that is good or bad.

 

[USMA81]

Good discussion. I agree the producers of the video are biased against EV’s and the title was inaccurate with the facts of the story. Still, the underlying Porsche (all manufacturers) story is valid: regulatory and consumer uncertainty, changing plans for model development, and profit erosion.

I recently read an opinion piece (can’t find it now) that basically said that EV’s are inevitable because (eventually) they can be produced at a lower cost than ICE. Price is king in the mass market. It is just a rough road to get there.

 

[tmrqs]

The problem for a 911 or a 718 car, is that by nature, this kind of car has to be "light" . An heavy battery will kill the driving experience. Added to the lack of the flat 6 roar, you will understand that no one will be willing to have one of this car.
Both the macan and now the Cayenne are daily cars. It's not the same segment

I’m not so sure, I expect the 718 EV to be a ton of fun. I would definitively be interested in one - without the engine sound.

There’s not just one absolute preference and what the 718 would lose on the weight side, it would gain in torque and responsiveness.

It’s kind of like saying no one cares about Formula E because there’s Formula 1. Or a few (!) years back, that traveling on horses was plenty enough.

 

[CHP]

I’m not so sure, I expect the 718 EV to be a ton of fun. I would definitively be interested in one - without the engine sound.

There’s not just one absolute preference and what the 718 would lose on the weight side, it would gain in torque and responsiveness.

It’s kind of like saying no one cares about Formula E because there’s Formula 1. Or a few (!) years back, that traveling on horses was plenty enough.

There are more news from Porsche in German press. Apparently 718 and Cayenne will be available with combustion engine (performance only) as well. Not sure if this means current models will stay for longer as I fail to understand how they would be able to modify EV platform.

 

[krissrock]

There are more news from Porsche in German press. Apparently 718 and Cayenne will be available with combustion engine (performance only) as well. Not sure if this means current models will stay for longer as I fail to understand how they would be able to modify EV platform.

I imagine the EV platform is new and is the stand-alone platform. The highest models using ICE, will most likely be based off the previous ICE chassis or whatever...

 

[craz8]

I am absolutely planning on looking seriously at a smaller, 2 seat convertible EV in 2-3 or so years. If it’s a Porsche, that would be nice. I don't think there's anything In the US that fits this today!

I am not going to buy a car of this type with a fuel engine.

The high performance 718 cars are more than I want - but I like the styling of the Spyder!

 

[jwatte]

Very few people who get used to an EV switch back again. The main reason to do it would be if you live in situations where charging is untenable (renting, having to rely on public chargers.)

EVs are cheaper to run, have fewer failing parts, are cheaper to service, perform a lot better, are a lot quieter, and are just overall a far superior product for >90% of car users (and >99% of car *trips*) based on empirical facts alone.

People of course are emotional, and make decisions based on things other than facts, so, hardly surprising.

 

[FirstEV]

Very few people who get used to an EV switch back again. The main reason to do it would be if you live in situations where charging is untenable (renting, having to rely on public chargers.)

EVs are cheaper to run, have fewer failing parts, are cheaper to service, perform a lot better, are a lot quieter, and are just overall a far superior product for >90% of car users (and >99% of car *trips*) based on empirical facts alone.

People of course are emotional, and make decisions based on things other than facts, so, hardly surprising.

I agree fully, I would never in a million years switch back to ICE as a daily. With that being said I would still think ICE is better for weekend/few days a month sports car because ICE cars still give an emotion that is not replicable even in 1000hp EV's.

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