MY26 software update (week 36) for MY24-25

[Yves]

It simply is not true. You can look at the Porsche Taycan graph posted by degenatron.

The difference between preconditiong and not is ~10C. There is no point on the curve where a 10C difference in battery temperature doubles charging performance. It shows a 3.5 minute loss from 20C to 10C.


These screenshots mean nothing. They are different charging stations in different seasons on different drives. You are not showing the temperature difference or the starting SOC. This is not a comparison of preconditioning vs. not.

It is really very simple. Start one drive on one day and drive to the DC charging station using CarPlay or without setting a PCM nav destination. Note the starting and arriving temperatures. Note the charge time delivered from the same starting and ending points and the total kWh delivered.

Now do the same thing, setting a PCM destination. You will find that the battery is 5-10C warmer when arriving, but no different in temperature after ~5 minutes. You will also find that the total duration of the charging stop doesn't extend by double. You simply cannot lose that much charging time over a 10C temperature difference. It's a 10-15% maximum difference in charge rate.

No, it's not what you posted. You posted a completely uncontrolled test from two charging stops that have no relationship to each other.

The fact that one charging session is faster or slower is absolutely not down to a couple degrees of temperature difference. This really is just physics. The graph is right there from Porsche. Take any point on that graph and move up or down 10C. Is your charging speed doubled? Absolutely not.

Watch your car next time you DC fast charge. How far does the temperature increase while driving? How much higher and faster does it go while fast charging? Because you'll be cooling your car before hitting 80% charge even at -10C ambient.

I can post some actual data with actual temperatures when I get home, but you can also look at some Tesla data for similar performance: 1kW of preconditioning raised the battery 3C. Best case, mathematically, for almost all EVs is 3kW of preconditioning, or 10C. That's it.

The fantasy that you're superheating your battery into doubling charging is just not based in reality, unless you're plugging in for only 5 minutes at 10% to hit the 270kW flat curve. The 3-5 minutes savings is very much the mathematical limit. And across a normal, 20-30 minute charging stop, your SOC and the charger itself are bigger factors.

For me it is clear if the battery is not at 25C ish / pre conditioned you ride a charging curve that takes 2x time and the difference is not some minutes as I and others have clearly shown. Especially if you keep the car between 10 to 60% which the Porsche Nav is doing on a roadtrip

I did the test same day with same ambient (which is not really needed it’s the battery temp, only in hot summer that has an effect where during charging you could heat gate)
Calling it uncontrolled is just a lame trick to get your point across, that’s not how it works
Anyway you do you, I and most others here know better from real experience …

As already mentioned the difference will be less when doing a 10 to 80% for sure as both charging curves will meet at around 2/3‘s but the PCM Nav will keep your Macan in the 10 to 15 minuted charging time with a 10 to 60% … it will almost never go to 80% for this exact reason …

I will probably do a roadtrip of a 1000km in 2 weeks, colder weather and will be using the PCM Nav as I know I will easily add 30 minutes or more if I would use Apple Maps …

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[TomekGnomek]

It simply is not true. You can look at the Porsche Taycan graph posted by degenatron.

The difference between preconditiong and not is ~10C. There is no point on the curve where a 10C difference in battery temperature doubles charging performance. It shows a 3.5 minute loss from 20C to 10C.

You mean to argue what I personally experienced with Macan multiple times is not true because of a graph for Taycan with a different battery, different software and different charging curve?

Sure, let's go with that - even IF... these are theoretical parameters for a battery. Porsche states on every marketing claim of 20-80% charging times that this happens only in optimal conditions and charging exactly from 20 to 80. If you begin charging at 30% the whole curve changes. If you begin charging at 5C below optimal point the whole curve changes. If you compound many different factors in play it throws off the whole calculation and you are left at the charger for exactly TWICE the estimated amount which happened to me more then one time.

 

[seabird]

For me it is clear if the battery is not at 25C ish / pre conditioned you ride a charging curve that takes 2x time

That's just not how it works. The difference between 25C and 15C is not double.

Calling it uncontrolled is just a lame trick to get your point across, that’s not how it works

No, it's not a trick. It's to prevent wild-ass claims conflating multiple factors in charging speed and time.

The math is very clear. Preconditioning can add 10C to the starting battery temperature at a cost of 3kWh. 10C cannot turn a 15 minute charge into a 30 minute charge.

Charging variability you are experiencing is not because of preconditioning. You can absolutely do the math on what the temperature gain saves you. It's been done across hundreds of thousands of charging cycles on dozens of cars. The time savings attributable to a 10C preconditioning bump at 60kW is 9 minutes. The time savings at 180kW is 3 minutes. The time savings at 240kW is 2 minutes.

You mean to argue what I personally experienced with Macan multiple times is not true because of a graph for Taycan with a different battery, different software and different charging curve?

No, I mean to drive home the point you keep ignoring, which is that a 10 degree C temperature difference does not account for the differences in charging times you are claiming.

The Macan charging curve is well-defined. The capabilities of a preconditioning cycle are heavily standardized: 5-6kW heaters running for roughly 30 minutes in conditions cold enough to warrant them. The temperature gain of DCFC charging is also well-defined. Even a lowly 60kW charger will dump more heat into the battery than a 6kW heater at full tilt, rapidly warming far faster than preconditioning can do on its own.

One charger maxing out at 160kW and another giving the full 270kW is never solely due to whether or not you have preconditioned before arrival. What you believe you are experiencing is not changing the math.

 

[Yves]

That's just not how it works. The difference between 25C and 15C is not double.

No, it's not a trick. It's to prevent wild-ass claims conflating multiple factors in charging speed and time.

The math is very clear. Preconditioning can add 10C to the starting battery temperature at a cost of 3kWh. 10C cannot turn a 15 minute charge into a 30 minute charge.

Charging variability you are experiencing is not because of preconditioning. You can absolutely do the math on what the temperature gain saves you. It's been done across hundreds of thousands of charging cycles on dozens of cars. The time savings attributable to a 10C preconditioning bump at 60kW is 9 minutes. The time savings at 180kW is 3 minutes. The time savings at 240kW is 2 minutes.

No, I mean to drive home the point you keep ignoring, which is that a 10 degree C temperature difference does not account for the differences in charging times you are claiming.

The Macan charging curve is well-defined. The capabilities of a preconditioning cycle are heavily standardized: 5-6kW heaters running for roughly 30 minutes in conditions cold enough to warrant them. The temperature gain of DCFC charging is also well-defined. Even a lowly 60kW charger will dump more heat into the battery than a 6kW heater at full tilt, rapidly warming far faster than preconditioning can do on its own.

One charger maxing out at 160kW and another giving the full 270kW is never solely due to whether or not you have preconditioned before arrival. What you believe you are experiencing is not changing the math.

So you keep repeating the charging curve thing, what do you not understand about 270kw vs 130kw observed (not some theoretical optimal chart, the other person saw 160 not me)
I’ll repeat
- 11 minutes for 22kwh and the charging did heat the battery but slowly and it never reached optimum speed, it does not recover …
- 7 minutes for 29kwh

Now this was just recently on the same day, I’ve repeated that test over the last 12 month’s always the same experience, cold battery … 130kw / pre conditioned 270 … time 2x, same charging station with no one present, so I know the charging station can deliver the power and it is not down rated …

So you do you, but stop giving ill advise.

And yeah I’ll repeat the difference becomes less dramatic if you charge to 80% as the charging power drops and both curves will meet at 2/3’s in, but it is not just some minutes and on a roadtrip it becomes an issue ones the outside temp is 16C or lower as you loose 10 minutes on each stop … so if you have 3 stops that is 30 minutes wasted (except if you go for lunch)

 

[TomekGnomek]

The Macan charging curve is well-defined.

I have NEVER had over 200kw at 50% SoC

 

[seabird]

So you keep repeating the charging curve thing, what do you not understand about 270kw vs 130kw observed (not some theoretical optimal chart, the other person saw 160 not me)

What you observed was not due to preconditioning alone. It is not possible within the laws of physics. It truly is that simple. 270 vs. 130 is absolutely, positively, under no questions, impossible for preconditioning.

You are losing 1-5 minutes per charging stop, whether that stop is 5 minutes, 25 minutes, or 50 minutes. It's literally just math on the time it takes to close a 10C gap with DC charging.

I have NEVER had over 200kw at 50% SoC

Right, because that would be beyond the capabilities of the car.

 

[Yves]

What you observed was not due to preconditioning alone. It is not possible within the laws of physics. It truly is that simple.

You are losing 1-5 minutes per charging stop, whether that stop is 5 minutes, 25 minutes, or 50 minutes. It's literally just math.

Right, because that would be beyond the capabilities of the car.

I do know the math and it should not be the case, but in reality it is, I suspect that of those 130kw there is also battery heating still going on or wrong reporting in either case the times are not invented and are real … and they are also reported by others … so do whatever you like with it, sometimes table napkin math is just that and as the British say the proof in the pudding is in the eating …

 

[Yves]

Ow, and this explains it better … yes I know it is a 800v to 400v comparison but as luck would call it the 130kw we see when arriving with a colder battery gives you an idea of in 10 minutes you have double the charge and at 20 the difference is still considerable …
https://evkx.net/models/porsche/macan/macan_4/chargingcurve/

 

[seabird]

in either case the times are not invented and are real … and they are also reported by others …

The times are not invented, but for the millionth time, they're not testing preconditioning vs. not. A screenshot of two different sessions with no temperature data is not showing anything useful. Especially one claiming to "precondition" on an August day where the ambient temperature was 18C and "not precondition" on a November day at 4C (neither of which is cold enough to matter).

The reason you are getting 130kW charging is not because the battery is 10C colder. No amount of claiming otherwise can make that true.

Ow, and this explains it better … yes I know it is a 800v to 400v comparison but as luck would call it the 130kw we see when arriving with a colder battery gives you an idea of in 10 minutes you have double the charge and at 20 the difference is still considerable …
https://evkx.net/models/porsche/macan/macan_4/chargingcurve/

No. 800V vs. 400V has nothing to do with temperature or preconditioning.

 

[beez]

I think we need a separate thread for how preconditioning works, separate from this MY26 Software Update thread. It’s a great, although contentious, discussion, but it might be cleaner to keep this thread on the MY26 software changes (and the bundled updates people are getting) and their experience with that new software and other updates.

 

[Yves]

The times are not invented, but for the millionth time, they're not testing preconditioning vs. not. A screenshot of two different sessions with no temperature data is not showing anything useful. Especially one claiming to "precondition" on an August day where the ambient temperature was 18C and "not precondition" on a November day at 4C (neither of which is cold enough to matter).

The reason you are getting 130kW charging is not because the battery is 10C colder. No amount of claiming otherwise can make that true.


No. 800V vs. 400V has nothing to do with temperature or preconditioning.

130kw is 130kw on 800v or 400v, if you do not understand that then I cannot help you. I just proven that you are clearly wrong with the some minutes claim.

Look at the timings of second graph, they prove exactly what I’ve been experiencing, as they say you can lead the horse to the water, but you can’t make it to drink …

And for 3th time, my test was on THE SAME DAY with and without pre conditioning …
The other users Aug vs Nov test could be not that fare, but points to the same conclusion none the less …

 

[MaccyT]

I Would suggest to take this discussion to it’s own thread/topic
So I due have the 28.13 according to my dealer but does anyone know how to verify this from within the car?

My Macan needs to go back probably because the ventilation keeps blowing like a mad man while the climate console is only showing 1 stripe of activity but the noise is incredible and the cabin is heated like crazy although temp is set at 20,5 Celsius. Not a known issue I guess as I could not find it here?

 

[Yves]

I think we need a separate thread for how preconditioning works, separate from this MY26 Software Update thread. It’s a great, although contentious, discussion, but it might be cleaner to keep this thread on the MY26 software changes (and the bundled updates people are getting) and their experience with that new software and other updates.

Bit to late anyway the thread is already 33 pages, and there is nothing new to report anymore, all was said in the first 10 pages …
I can summarize them for you:
- some claim to have better range, others have not seen any difference (me included)
- some claim the air suspension is smoother better, can’t say I feel any difference
- should have eliminated all the weird errors, for me they are less but new ones popped up, like cannot activate cruise control bonnet or door is open ?! Went away. Others have again the orange warnings after the update
- some experienced car play issue wireless was broken, probably an OTA after the update at the dealer that changed password requirements hotspot, I solved it with new password, others had to do a full reset of the PCM
- some say the assistance like ACC and lane assist are better, I see/feel no difference …
- no change in charging curve or pre conditioning … so yeah that discussion came from that one

All in all a disappointing update that mainly tries to correct all the bugs and no new “wow” features … like Digital carkey for those who have comfort access …

 

[dbsb3233]

My Macan needs to go back probably because the ventilation keeps blowing like a mad man while the climate console is only showing 1 stripe of activity but the noise is incredible and the cabin is heated like crazy although temp is set at 20,5 Celsius. Not a known issue I guess as I could not find it here?

Mine often sounds like it's blowing like crazy but it's rarely coming from the dash vents. It's inside somewhere, plus the 2nd row vents. Check your 2nd row vents to make sure they're turned off. Once I do that the tornado sound often goes away. Although sometimes I still get it even if the front fan (either side) is on, even just on 1.

Most maddening climate system I've ever had in a car.

 

[Yves]

Mine often sounds like it's blowing like crazy but it's rarely coming from the dash vents. It's inside somewhere, plus the 2nd row vents. Check your 2nd row vents to make sure they're turned off. Once I do that the tornado sound often goes away. Although sometimes I still get it even if the front fan (either side) is on, even just on 1.

Most maddening climate system I've ever had in a car.

You do not have an iX that always activates the second row, I hard deactivated locked it.
I do not have issues with climate settings, if you hear ventilation noise it is most probably the second row … you can turn that off …
Is nothing the software update fixed or introduced as far as I can tell …

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