Is there really no adaptive regenerative braking?

[pm4s]

I exclusively use regen (overrun recuperation as Porsche likes to call it) as it mimics engine braking in a low gear, high rev, large engine which I was used to.
Coasting feels horrible to me (like rolling in neutral) as I am also used to 1 pedal driving and lifting my right foot to brake, I do not care about any economy benefits.
I hated coasting or sailing as it was called in small engined automatic petrol cars as well, revs would drop to idle while going down hill at an alarming rate and the efficiency symbol would pop up.

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[dbsb3233]

This is why. regen slows you down too much. I don't know about your area, but i have a lot of rolling hills here. And slowing down while going down hill...is not efficient. I would literally have to get back on the "gas" to keep rolling. Being able to go far distances not using any power is just as efficient. It's not all about regaining it.
There's routes i take where i can coast for about 2 miles! If regen was on, i'd had to use energy to cover that distance cuz the regen would stop me.

I guess it depends on how fast you want to let the car go in that 2 mile downhill. If it's a steep grade and you're ok letting the car drift up to 90, so be it. But if it's a gentle grade where you're only coasting down at the speed that you want to go anyway, then it's moot because regen wouldn't kick in anyway.

In my case it's going thru the Rocky Mountains. I've got long stretches of almost constant downhill (dropping 6000'). I've gotta slow the car down, and regen saves be from having to hit the brake pedal more. It's the same efficiency whether the regen comes from the brake or acc pedal (or CC).

But I get the point about the constant rolling hills through prairie. Those dozens of small dips are annoying with regen happening when the car would only gain 2-3 MPH on the short coasting each time. I turn CC off on those, but I rarely encounter those on my drives.

Still though, I just don't see how that little bit can have any appreciable impact on efficiency. A tiny amount.

 

[dbsb3233]

A popular misconception, but take a broader view. When you include things like drivers habits, the studies show that regen actually hurts mpg or mpkW.

For one, with strong regen drivers have a tendency to stay on the throttle and begin braking later, perhaps because they falsely think they are saving energy (Tesla marketing). Regen is actually not that efficient in shoving energy back into the battery. There is some, but not as much as you think real world.

Without regen, drivers have a tendency to ease up on the throttle early and coast to a stop using the brakes much later, or driving smoother, which is more efficient. Coasting doesn't use as much battery or fuel as being on the throttle.

I find myself getting noticeable more mileage when driving any car like I don't have brakes. I get a couple more tenths per kW when I disable my Mini's regen and drive to stay off the conventional brakes. So adjust your driving style. But then the fun of timing regen such that you reach the stop sign at 0 mpg is fun that I miss. I will often enable strong regen in the city... for fun... boys and their toys.

Think about how the energy difference between coasting and using throttle. If you are driving like you stole it, there probably note much efficiency difference regardless.

Personally I find I need to pay much attention to drive a strong regen car smoothly, i.e. without your passenger's head flapping. I like the way Porche does it, although the transision when coming to a stop could be much improved.

I do agree that driving an EV causes many people to be, well, bad drivers. By that I mean the extra power and the regen can cause many to drive more herky-jerky than they would in an ICE. Jackrabbit starts, hard stops. Sports car drivers rather than normal drivers.

A common complaint years ago was that EVs caused passengers to get motion sickness. No, it wasn't EVs that did that, it was bad drivers that didn't learn (or refused) to drive them normally (i.e. gently). So yes, if we're talking about a driver not using regen smoothly resulting in more herky-jerky, that would be slightly less efficient (just like it would in an ICE, although not as much because regen gets more back than a non-hybrid ICE).

But that's different than regen being less efficient. Drive normally and it isn't. But I agree that many people don't. My partner is kinda that way. Now that he has the extra power, he likes to "drive it like he stole it". Sometimes makes me a little queasy as the passenger. Me, I drive cars like a chauffeur, even my EVs. I accelerate smoothly and slow smoothly, and modulate the acc and brake pedals with regen on. It often takes a gentle touch to modulate acc pedal regen (although as you said it's easier in the Macan because the regen is automatically on the gentle side).

 

[krissrock]

if ppl don't know how to drive...it doesn't matter what they're driving.

For one, with strong regen drivers have a tendency to stay on the throttle and begin braking later,

well, they have to!
they can't coast...it's either Go or Stop lol
Even in an ice vehicle, you can coast that middle distance before braking.

 

[dbsb3233]

if ppl don't know how to drive...it doesn't matter what they're driving.

well, they have to!
they can't coast...it's either Go or Stop lol
Even in an ice vehicle, you can coast that middle distance before braking.

There is a 3rd option -- press the accelerator pedal the in-between amount so you're neither using power from the battery nor gaining power from regen. That would be the same as coasting.

 

[ColdCase]

Even in an ice vehicle, you can coast that middle distance before braking.

Depends. Most ice vehicle car transmissions now days are set up to coast, not using engine braking, to get another 0.1 mpg. But some cars and most SUVs and trucks provide engine braking. Not as efficient as coasting

 

[ColdCase]

But that's different than regen being less efficient. Drive normally and it isn't.

The energy recovery from regen is so small it makes much less difference than one would think. Regen is less efficient in just about all normal driving situations.

If you feather the throttle on a strong regen car to slow down VS just leaving up the throttle on a light or no regen car, then you may get close enough to the same efficiency. But the math says regen is still less efficient.

But then most drivers don't do that as it takes some concentration and coordination to feather the throttle, even with years of experience and muscle memory.

Looking back at my Mini data, during the same mix of highway and city driving I get 0.3 more mile per kWh when regen is off . It doesn't seem to make much difference when I'm autocrossing

The research paper, that I don't have a references for handy, spells it out in much more detail. I'll have to go find it as its not intuatively obvious..

 

[dbsb3233]

The energy recovery from regen is so small it makes much less difference than one would think. Regen is less efficient in just about all normal driving situations.

If you feather the throttle on a strong regen car to slow down VS just leaving up the throttle on a light or no regen car, then you may get close enough to the same efficiency. But the math says regen is still less efficient.

But then most drivers don't do that as it takes some concentration and coordination to feather the throttle, even with years of experience and muscle memory.

Looking back at my Mini data, during the same mix of highway and city driving I get 0.3 more mile per kWh when regen is off . It doesn't seem to make much difference when I'm autocrossing

The research paper, that I don't have a references for handy, spells it out in much more detail. I'll have to go find it as its not intuatively obvious..

The Macan isn't strong regen so that makes it less of a factor. But yes, insomuch as using acc pedal regen might make some drivers drive more herky-jerky (aggressive start/stop speed/slow), that style of driving is less efficient (in any car). The key to better efficiency in any car is to not drive herky-jerky aggressive.

It's kinda moot for people that use cruise control on road trips too, since CC uses regen as needed to keep you at the set speed when going downhill. It would be stop & go city driving where it would seem to make some difference. And honestly, I don't care about efficiency much there. I just care about it for on range for road trips (where I'm using CC, which makes it moot).

 

[alvaro]

Hi, there is regenerative braking. No button however but you can enable it in the center screen in the right hand corner In the car menu for driving. The regen braking is rather weak so I mostly leave it turned off. As all other electric cars there is regen applied when you hit the brakes or when the adaptive cruise control is active. I can never tell when the car switches from regeneration to traditional brakes. Works flawlessly. People who want one pedal driving will be dissapointed.

My diamond button is set to turn this off or on. But honestly, I never touch it. It's always on.

 

[dbsb3233]

My diamond button is set to turn this off or on. But honestly, I never touch it. It's always on.

Same here. I had it set to Regen On/Off for a while, but I played with in one trip and found I didn't like turning it off (and it didn't gain anything on efficiency when I did because I use cruise control on road trips). Became a waste to reserve it for that.

I've got it on Camera now, but I'm still trying to decide the best use for it. I'd like to use it to Seek Back but that rarely ever works on SXM.

 

[ColdCase]

The Macan isn't strong regen so that makes it less of a factor. ...

I was just narrowly focussed on always using regen being more efficient. That is intuitive but proven not correct.

If you are driving to extend range (more miles per kW) turn regen off. No amount of regen/recoup helps on typical roadways regardless. Using regen on long mountain down hills may help. If you don't care, you are not going to notice much of a difference.

 

[Nikon]

I am not using regen. Coasting gets me more miles/km per kwh than gaining through regen.
I tried both modes and found out (at least on my daily routes) that coasting has less consumption than regen.

 

[SuperH]

In answer to the OP - no it doesn't, unfortunately. I had that along with a load of other really useful and effective systems like route topography, on my last car - an Audi e-tron sportback, and it's all of those gadgets I really miss on the Macan. The Macan has an option to turn on route topography but it does absolutely nothing.

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