Wall Street Journal Article on German auto industry

[USMA81]

A May 20 WSJ article indicates Germany has lost 100,000 auto jobs since 2019 and is expected to lose another 125,000 by 2035. Part of this is due to the move to EV’s which are simpler to build, but most of the losses are due to an “uncompetitive business environment:” high taxes and levies, costly labor, high energy costs (WSJ: by some accounts, double the US), and bureaucracy. This is causing “panick” in EU governments, and obviously within the German vehicle industry.

While I have truly enjoyed all of the Porsche vehicles I’ve owned, the article caused me to wonder if this brand loyalty for me is near an end. I hope not, but I’m slavishly focused on buying based on merit and value. Through the current Macan EV’s I own, I still feel I’m with the right brand, and that I have made good buying decisions. This was brought home to me two days ago when I had a Ford Mach-E EV as a rental. Driving on the miserable roads of NY, the car was horrific: full of rattles, terrible ride, other design decisions and driving characteristics questionable to me. Admittedly, it is not in the same class as the Macan, but I wouldn’t have it at any price. Still, I do wonder if my next vehicle will be Korean, Japanese or (probably not, but who knows) Chinese.

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[Reno]

It is now you shall buy VW or Porsche shares, NOW

 

[Wivenhoe]

I understand that the labour costs are very high in Germany and also very unionised. Mix that with high electricity costs and manufacturers look to build elsewhere. To control costs and reflect the ever changing market pressures Porsche are building the new Cayenne EV’s on the same line as the ICE’s. They then produce to follow orders rather than keep producing a model to keep a line productive.

I’ve been told that the dealers management are telling sales that no discounts are to be given on new Cayennes as production will match requirements and dealers won’t be flooded with models that aren’t selling, as they have found with the Macan after the initial rush to purchase a new model. Some buyers in the US are being told delivery will be late this year or early next. The UK orders are being processed much quicker so that may be down to increased US tariffs.

All this shows Porsche have recognised they made the wrong move into wholesale EV’s and manufacture must reflect the cars the market want. That said, residuals on EV’s have increased in line with the cost of fuel !

 

[Trevasann]

A May 20 WSJ article indicates Germany has lost 100,000 auto jobs since 2019 and is expected to lose another 125,000 by 2035. Part of this is due to the move to EV’s which are simpler to build, but most of the losses are due to an “uncompetitive business environment:” high taxes and levies, costly labor, high energy costs (WSJ: by some accounts, double the US), and bureaucracy. This is causing “panick” in EU governments, and obviously within the German vehicle industry.

While I have truly enjoyed all of the Porsche vehicles I’ve owned, the article caused me to wonder if this brand loyalty for me is near an end. I hope not, but I’m slavishly focused on buying based on merit and value. Through the current Macan EV’s I own, I still feel I’m with the right brand, and that I have made good buying decisions. This was brought home to me two days ago when I had a Ford Mach-E EV as a rental. Driving on the miserable roads of NY, the car was horrific: full of rattles, terrible ride, other design decisions and driving characteristics questionable to me. Admittedly, it is not in the same class as the Macan, but I wouldn’t have it at any price. Still, I do wonder if my next vehicle will be Korean, Japanese or (probably not, but who knows) Chinese.

Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts around loyalty, and I appreciate the honesty around other brands. While 'there is nothing quite like a Porsche' my next vehicle may be an Ioniq, but it's early, I only have 11000 miles on my 2024 and I love it (unless it's in the shop for always too long).

 

[dbsb3233]

VW (which owns Porsche) is sill one of the two biggest automakers in the world (Toyota the other). Like all automakers and companies in general, they continue to automate and get more efficient, which displaces jobs and high labor costs. And yes, legacy auto's rush to invest $billions into EVs the last 10 years has proven to be a costly overreaction. Granted, it was often government policy that forced them into it. But whatever the reason, they went too hard too fast. Same with Ford and GM, and many others. Toyota is about the only one that took a slow approach to EVs and it's paying off for them as they avoided the huge EV losses the others had (although they had their own failed strategy with hydrogen). Consumer demand for EVs just didn't shift as fast as automakers and some governments wanted, and they're paying the price for those $billions in losses now.

Personally, I don't think legacy automakers are going out of business anytime soon, because I don't think ICE/hybrid is going away anytime soon. I've said all along I characterize it as being 10 years in to a 30 year transition. That may be more true for the US market than the European market, but not by a ton. It's also worth noting that Porsche actually sells more vehicle in the US than they do in Europe.

 

[dbsb3233]

This was brought home to me two days ago when I had a Ford Mach-E EV as a rental. Driving on the miserable roads of NY, the car was horrific: full of rattles, terrible ride, other design decisions and driving characteristics questionable to me. Admittedly, it is not in the same class as the Macan, but I wouldn’t have it at any price.

I owned a Mach-E (First Edition) for 5 years before buying a Macan and a Lucid Gravity last year. Overall I loved it, but you pointed out the #1 reason I decided to trade it off and upgrade: the too-stiff suspension. Like many EVs (Tesla included), you feel every bump in the road around town. It was way too "sport" tuned and not nearly enough "comfort" tuned. (Ford did offer a magnaride suspension in the GT Performance trim that came out later that was better).

I didn't experience any rattles inside the car, and overall it was pretty great (for a car that cost $40k less than the Macan). But I'd finally had enough with that stiff suspension.

 

[Sand8]

One of the reasons of the stiff suspension in electric cars is the weight they need to control.

 

[Garylaw]

I owned a Mach-E (First Edition) for 5 years before buying a Macan and a Lucid Gravity last year. Overall I loved it, but you pointed out the #1 reason I decided to trade it off and upgrade: the too-stiff suspension. Like many EVs (Tesla included), you feel every bump in the road around town. It was way too "sport" tuned and not nearly enough "comfort" tuned. (Ford did offer a magnaride suspension in the GT Performance trim that came out later that was better).

I didn't experience any rattles inside the car, and overall it was pretty great (for a car that cost $40k less than the Macan). But I'd finally had enough with that stiff suspension.

same experience here, Mach-e awd SR for 4 years, IMO one of best looking SUV EVs ever made and great driving experience overall, very practical for a family- as you said terrible ride quality and for me range as low as 130 miles at 100% charge in winter.
Im looking forward to upgrading to the Macan GTS very soon - quite a jump in quality & price (more than double)

 

[dbsb3233]

One of the reasons of the stiff suspension in electric cars is the weight they need to control.

Yes, although there are heavy luxury cars without air suspension that have a smooth ride. They just do it being floaty instead of sporty (which means more corner roll). They opted for sporty over floaty in the Mach-E, as do the Teslas and many other EVs.

Air suspension usually solves both, but it adds $$$ to already expensive vehicles.

 

[dbsb3233]

and for me range as low as 130 miles at 100% charge in winter.

Unfortunately that's unavoidable in any EV in the cold.

So far I'm finding about the same cold range loss in my Macan and my Gravity at the Mach-E (percentage-wise). The Macan (and especially the Gravity) just starts with more range to begin with so it's easier to work around. We went from 270 EPA in the Mach-E to 315 in the Macan to 450 in the Gravity. Your AWD SR was what, 211 EPA? Subtract cold loss and yeah, that's just not a lot to work with.

 

[jwatte]

Unfortunately that's unavoidable in any EV in the cold.

It isn't necessarily unavoidable.

As long as the car is plugged in, the battery pack can be kept warmer, to allow it to store more charge. While running, the pack can also bleed some energy to keep warm, which still improves range compared to doing nothing (unless you sit idle in freezing for a long time.)

If you park without being plugged in, you're screwed, though.

The additional weight and complexity of such a temperature management system, and the different way you have to use and think about the car compared to an ICE, and all official measurements being made in "California weather", might be why EV manufacturers don't optimize for cold weather ownership experience.

Yet?

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