New app features?

[Goldtrom]

Google is your friend. Literally the first hit:

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[JonoNZ]

Google is your friend. Literally the first hit:

Wasn't that related to bad 12V batteries though? And were replaced under warranty?

What I'm referring to is a systematic problem with the design. Teslas can suffer from fairly severe battery drain if you use Sentry mode and a few other features that require the onboard computer to completely fire up out of its low power mode. The Macan design is completely different.

I've gone away for many weeks and left all of our electric cars unplugged and arrived back with no more than 1% SOC change: that is for a BMW iX M60, Abarth 500e, Macan Turbo Electric. If you have a number of preconditioning programs set you will hit your SOC as the entire HVAC system is activated.

Anyway, you're convinced the Macan has a design problem here, when it does not. If you are experiencing SOC loss I suggest you get Porsche Service to look at your car and check everything is ok, including checking that up-to-date software is installed.

 

[Goldtrom]

My reading of those threads was it was parasitic drain issues. Many people suggested a SW issue.

 

[Goldtrom]

I know for a fact it’s charging. I get notifications when it finishes and it always stops at 50%. Either it lying and charging to more than 50% or the battery has drained by at least as much as my fairly reliable energy tracker is claiming (I have not adjusted for charging losses, but a quick search says 90% efficiency, so not a big deal)

Is it a design issue? No idea, I didn’t design it. But again this kind of parasitic drain issues common in many EVs.

 

[tmrqs]

But again this kind of parasitic drain issues common in many EVs.

That may be. What everyone here is saying however is that doesn’t happen on the Macan.
I can confirm it also doesn’t on the Ford Mustang Mach-e nor the Hyundai Ioniq 5.

I can leave any of these cars untouched for 2 weeks and will find them with the exact same SoC when I return - or when I check the levels on the respective apps or widgets.

I will add: you’re saying the issue is the Live Activity - and to my knowledge, the only thing the LA does is show the charging progress. That in itself cannot be draining the HV battery.

Your battery is getting drained, yes, but the issue cannot be LA - it makes no sense. Something else, in your car, with your accessories and/or home integration is causing it.

 

[ColdCase]

Is it a design issue? No idea, I didn’t design it. But again this kind of parasitic drain issues common in many EVs.

Its also common in many ICE vehicles, typically because defective radios wake up and uses a bit of power. These are all defects in specific cars, some brands seem to be more susceptible. than others.

You could stretch and say its a design defect because the radio fault was not detected.. My neighbor's Camaro continues to have parasitic losses no one seems to be able to figure out.

I have not heard any of my Mini or BMW friends complain about parasitic losses . If I leave the Mini plugged in, its software will level or condition the battery cells from time to time and that will draw some power from the EVSE I think. But thats well beyond my understanding so take with a grain of salt.

I've never noticed a parasitic loss in my 4S. Years ago FCA was pinging their vehicles as part of protective services which was waking them up often and draining battery.

 

[Goldtrom]

Amazing levels of certainty here. Sorry if I don’t take your word for it. I’m an experienced engineer that’s worked on plenty of similar systems. Things don’t always work the way you expect. Polling for status is a pretty common issue, it absolutely can drain a battery.

You are also misrepresenting what I said.

1. Before app update car was pulling the equivalent of a constant ~30w. Yes, I think that’s way too high for a modern EV. I have at least one theory on why it’s happening, but it’s unverifiable and thus not worth mentioning.

my expectation would be a max of 5w or to maintain dram and basic cellular under poor reception.

2. After the app update for at least 48 hours it was pulling the equivalent of ~60w continuous

My theory on (2) is the live activity tracker is constantly polling to ask charge status.

Where did I ever say the live activity is causing (1)?

I have no easy way to remotely diagnose (1)

for (2), I shut off the live activity tracker immediately after the last charging cycle. After the app update it was charging almost exactly every 24 hours. Since shutting off the tracker it’s already exceeded 24 hours and no charging as of yet. That fully supports my theory. Next I’ll wait for the next charge cycle to calculate the power/ energy usage.with the expectation it’s returned to (1). Assuming my theory is correct, I’ll re enable the tracker and see if the increased power draw returns.

Assuming all my experiments meet expectations then it’s enough data for me to at least report it to Porsche.

I’ll ask the dealer about (1) and see what they say after I get back. My expectation is they will say it’s normal. That’s pretty much what they always do.

 

[jwatte]

I mean, and idle home theater system could draw 30 Watts too, even with the TV display turned off.
You'd think idle consumption minimization would be a priority, but compared to longevity and robustness to the automotive environment, I bet it's taking a back seat.

And if it draws 30 Watts, that's one kilowatthour every 33 hours. With the battery size of this car, one kilowatthour is close enough to one percent of charge, so you'd then expect the car to lose less than 1% of main battery SOC per day.

What's a little surprising is if it would affect the main battery, because every previous EV I've had, has not used the main battery when "off." It's all come from the 12V battery, which means you could get a dead 12V battery even when the main traction battery is fully charged *and the EVSE is plugged in* -- because those vehicles only charged the 12V battery, when the main battery was charging, or when the car was fully on.

Maybe the Macan is smarter and charges the 12V battery from the main battery when it detects it's too low?

 

[ColdCase]

Yeah, I also ran some back of the envelope numbers and 1% of a 100Kw battery is roughly 33 hours at 30 watts, 16.5 hours at 60 watt... but my Macan sat unplugged for 5 days without a change in indicated SOC. My Mini (by BMW) has sat for weeks without indicated SOC change.

Perhaps Porche's indicated SOC is wonky or we don't have all the pieces.

I could understand noticeable power draw when plugged into an EVSE as even my mini takes advantage and cleans up... which I assume is the power draw I notice monitoring my EVSE current meter. Its not a constant load.

All cars I'm aware of have some IOD (Ignition off draw) and have a IOD disconnect for transport and storage. Dunno if the Macan draws from the small 12v Battery or larger battery pack or both.

Anyway interesting discussion for us engineering types, we all know observations, taking measurements, changes things.

 

[Goldtrom]

I never wanted to discuss the 30w *equivalent* base draw. My original post was about the app update. Since the update , I’ve noticed frequent 24 hour charging, regardless of draw that’s unusual.
Note the word “equivalent “. I’m assuming any power usage is due to a parasitic loss. No way to prove that either

the point of my post is the amount of energy being used when offf and plugged in to maintain the state after the app update doubled. Guess I’m the only one who is experiencing it.


As to if it’s some sort of conditioning cycle…
The car should not be reporting it as charging if it were doing some sort of conditioning, but that could just be wonky German engineering. I have seen it specifically report a lower state of charge when charging. But even that could be just off German way of reporting it. I have no way to prove it’s actually consuming the energy for charging. and of course this is orthogonal to why energy usage doubled.

Well over 24 hours now since I shut off the live tracker and still no charge cycle or change in state of charge. The increased energy usage/frequency of charge cycles has magically disappeared.

 

[Goldtrom]

The car has been parked since July 3rd. That seems like plenty of time to establish a baseline before the app update.

The only interesting thing that happened before the app update was it switched from 9.8kw charging to to 2.5kw charging around week 3.

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