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daveo4EV

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there's a lot of confusion as to NACS and the roll it will play in future vehicles.

I've driven EV's since 2011 - both Tesla's and more recently my 2020 Taycan Turbo - and easily road trip my EV's when ever I want to

Given the bifurcation of EV charging ports/charging cables North American already has essentially _two_ charging networks (actually four charging networks)
  1. [NACS Cable] - Tesla's Supercharger Network - 72-250 kW - DCFast charging - 20-40 minute stops
    1. you'll need a NACS vehicle or future CCS1 adapter to access this network (Ford owners now have this adapter as an option TODAY)
  2. [NACS Cable] - L1/L2 240V "slow" chargers - home & business (hotels, golf courses, wineries, ect) - 8-10 hour for a "full" charge
    1. you'll need a NACS vehicle or existing TeslaTap (others) to use these chargers - I have one in my Taycan - use it often at Tesla destination chargers…hotels for example with Tesla chargers.
  3. [CCS1 Cables] - these are EVGo's, the electrify america, chargepoint, etc - 25-350 kW DCFast charging - 20-40 minute stops
    1. NACS vehicles (Tesla's) need a CCS1 adapter to access these sites ($200) - existing adapter purchase from Tesla today - no problem - my son has this for 2022 Model Y - uses EA when he needs to with it.
  4. [J-1772 Cables] - this is the existing "slow" charging network, home residential - every non-Tesla eV - 240V L1/L2 - 1-12 hours to charge most EV's to 100%
    1. public "slow" charing network - ChargePoint, EVGo, Blink, office @work chargers, home residential chargers, mobile chargers in your "frunk"
    2. NACS vehicles need an existing $75 adpater to use these charges - this adapter is included $0 with every Tesla sold since 2011…Tesla owners use this to "charge" at work since most business that provide EV charging have installed J-1772 EV chargers.
Tesla owner's _TODAY_ can access all 4 networks - 3 of the 4 with factory included adapter - 4 of 4 if they purchase the optional $200 CCS1 adapter

Taycan owners (and everyone non-Tesla EV) can access 2 of the 4 networks (CCS1 & J-1772) natively
if you purchase a TeslaTap you can then access "slow" NACS 240V L1/L2 Tesla chargers (but not superchargers) (3 of 4 networks)
in the future you can purchase a NACS adapter and access the supercharger network (Ford owners can do it _TODAY_)

So you own a Tesla - if you want access to all 4 types of charging - you need to purchase the $200 CCS1 adapter and/or use the included J-1772 adapter

So you own a Taycan/Macan with J-1772/CCS1 - you can purchase a TeslaTap _TODAY_ and a NACS adapter in the future (Ford can do this today).

In the future you own a Macan with NACS native port - you're going to want the same two adapters Tesla owners enjoy - the J-1772 adapter and the CCS1 adapter

there is no "winning" here - because we do not have a universal charge port standard - there will always be a use case for an adapter…

NACS native vehicles benefit from a J-1772 adapter and CCS1 adapter to access non-Tesla chargers (fast or slow)
J-1772/CCS native vehicles benefit from a NACS-slow(TeslaTap) and NACS-fast (Ford-today, others future) adapter to access NACS fast chargers

the problem is we can't wave a magic wand and overnight upgrade all the existing charging stalls (fast or slow) to NACS charging cables - there will _ALWAYS_ be CCS1/J-1772 EV chargers in the wild - even _IF_ every Porsche sold today had a NACS native port on the vehicle - you'll want the J-1772 & CCS1 adapter in your frunk so you can charge anywhere…

NACS native EV's benefit from two adatpers (J-1772 & CCS1)
J-1772/CCS1 native EV's benefit from two adatpers (NACS slow (TeslaTap) and NACS fast (Superchargers))

there is no escaping having an adapter with you when away from home so you can access any charger you happen to encounter/need…

so honestly it's doesn't matter what kinda of port your EV has - you're going to need/want adapters to access the "other" charging network when you need to.

and it's going to be this way for at least 10 years…actually always, but it will be increasingly "remote" legacy EV chargers you'll be less and less likely to encounter but still possible…

my adapter(s) live in my frunk - and pull them out when needed - no problem - most of the time I'm charging at home - so I don't care - my home EV charging situation is "native" to my vehicle so I don't need adapters on a daily basis - only when road tripping or day tripping - which is way less frequent than daily usage.
 
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daveo4EV

daveo4EV

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here are links to existing adapters for the 4 main adapters just for examples
  • NACS "native" vehicle
  • J-1772/CCS1 "native" vehicle
    • Adapter J-1772 Vehicle to NACS slow charger
      - TeslaTap or equivalent - $100-$300 depending on cable "rating" for up to 100/80 amp 19.2 kW charging
      • Taycan/Macan owners only need 60 amp version (Taycan optionally 100 amp version if you option the 19.2 kW option - no 19.2 kW option for Macan EV's so far)
    • Adapter CCS Vehicle to NACS fast charger - $199 - Ford owners can use these today, other CCS1 vehicles in the future - however requires your vehicle be "authorized" by Tesla for network access - today only Ford vehicle's are allowed to start a charging session
if you want to travel with impunity you'll want to have two of these adapter for any given native port type - otherwise you run the risk of needing to charge, but for lack of a $100-$200 adapter you can't plug in…not saying you'll need it 100% and some people may never use any adapter, but if you want access to any charger you might encounter in your travels you'll need two adapters with you regardless of what type of native port you have on your vehicle…

for any given vehicle you will want 2 of the 4 adapters depending on your vehicle's native port type.
 
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daveo4EV

daveo4EV

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the upshot is - I don't care - J-1772/CCS1 vehicles will need adatpers - NACS vehicle's will need adatpers - there is no winning…

buy the EV you want when you want because the native port type isn't going to "save" you anything…
 
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daveo4EV

daveo4EV

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Great recap of the current (ah!) situation - thank you!
and at least 10 years in to the future - the problem is there will always be "legacy" EV chargers in the wild - even if we retrofitted every existing EV with NACS ports - the existing EV charging infrastructure is a very very slow boat to turn around - there will not be ubiquitious NACS EV chargers/cables…so NACS vehicle's will always be a use case for an adapter when you encounter that "one" legacy EV chargers than hasn't been swapped for NACS cable.
 

whitex

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Worth mentioning that NACS does not mean Tesla network access.
  1. EA is moving to NACS in the future. You will be able to charge there with just an adapter, but Tesla SC access may still not be available as they pick and choose which cars can or cannot charge there.
  2. About 20% of Tesla SC's (today's numbers, it will shrink) are not accessible even to CCS cars officially admitted to the TSCN as they don't support the CCS protocol (they use a Tesla proprietary, CAN based, protocol.).
It is technically possible that an EV will have a NACS port, but not allowed to charge on Tesla network.
 
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daveo4EV

daveo4EV

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Worth mentioning that NACS does not mean Tesla network access.
  1. EA is moving to NACS in the future. You will be able to charge there with just an adapter, but Tesla SC access may still not be available as they pick and choose which cars can or cannot charge there.
  2. About 20% of Tesla SC's (today's numbers, it will shrink) are not accessible even to CCS cars officially admitted to the TSCN as they don't support the CCS protocol (they use a Tesla proprietary, CAN based, protocol.).
It is technically possible that an EV will have a NACS port, but not allowed to charge on Tesla network.
this is 100% true for hybrid which offer _NO_ fastCharging today - I've always wondered if the vendors moving to NACS - what they plan to do for their Hybrid non-fast charging EV's…I have no objection to NACS for them also - but if you have a NACS port on your 50 mile EV Hybrid it's not for supercharging…

we'll see how this plays out.
 

fullmetalbaal

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Not sure I fully agree. We have had Tesla and non-Tesla EVs as well.
Currently a Taycan and Model X.

I would say:
The CCS to NACS or NACS to CCS adapters are both substantially larger and clumsier than the J1772 adapter for Tesla. That's not the same thing at all IMHO.

The TeslaTap doesn't always work: destination chargers sometimes seem to be locked to Tesla only. Not well documented, hotels often not aware/clear, always a fun surprise. J1772 chargers never seem to be locking out Teslas however.

But most importantly: what I am hoping to get from NACS on my next Porsche is not the adapter/plug. While smaller, nicer, more elegant etc etc. it's not what made my CCS experience such sh*t. It's the reliable Tesla network I want access to. Which is why Stellantis saying "We'll do the NACS plug, but not the Tesla network" is baffling. EA doesn't suck because of the plug...

Even better is their new idea, IONNA: Let's found another network, use the same hardware (minus the plugs), run by people that are ex-EA, and somehow this will turn out better. I need to find a way to place bets on the outcome - that could fund my next Porsche.
 

whitex

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this is 100% true for hybrid which offer _NO_ fastCharging today - I've always wondered if the vendors moving to NACS - what they plan to do for their Hybrid non-fast charging EV's…I have no objection to NACS for them also - but if you have a NACS port on your 50 mile EV Hybrid it's not for supercharging…

we'll see how this plays out.
I don't see any reason why they would not move to NACS, just nothing would happen (or a message on screen would appear explaining the situation) when such non-DC enabled car plugs into DC charger. You may find it hard to believe, but there are Model S'es out there which do not have DC charging enabled. They are older ones, S40's and S60's. S40's had the option for $10K to enable it, S60's for $2,500. Today I read on Tesla forums Tesla wants $12,000 to enable it on a 2013 S60. - it would be unlimited lifetime, but 12 grand was not worth it to the owner.
 

PorscheGuyFromAZ

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there's a lot of confusion as to NACS and the roll it will play in future vehicles.

I've driven EV's since 2011 - both Tesla's and more recently my 2020 Taycan Turbo - and easily road trip my EV's when ever I want to

Given the bifurcation of EV charging ports/charging cables North American already has essentially _two_ charging networks (actually four charging networks)
  1. [NACS Cable] - Tesla's Supercharger Network - 72-250 kW - DCFast charging - 20-40 minute stops
    1. you'll need a NACS vehicle or future CCS1 adapter to access this network (Ford owners now have this adapter as an option TODAY)
  2. [NACS Cable] - L1/L2 240V "slow" chargers - home & business (hotels, golf courses, wineries, ect) - 8-10 hour for a "full" charge
    1. you'll need a NACS vehicle or existing TeslaTap (others) to use these chargers - I have one in my Taycan - use it often at Tesla destination chargers…hotels for example with Tesla chargers.
  3. [CCS1 Cables] - these are EVGo's, the electrify america, chargepoint, etc - 25-350 kW DCFast charging - 20-40 minute stops
    1. NACS vehicles (Tesla's) need a CCS1 adapter to access these sites ($200) - existing adapter purchase from Tesla today - no problem - my son has this for 2022 Model Y - uses EA when he needs to with it.
  4. [J-1772 Cables] - this is the existing "slow" charging network, home residential - every non-Tesla eV - 240V L1/L2 - 1-12 hours to charge most EV's to 100%
    1. public "slow" charing network - ChargePoint, EVGo, Blink, office @work chargers, home residential chargers, mobile chargers in your "frunk"
    2. NACS vehicles need an existing $75 adpater to use these charges - this adapter is included $0 with every Tesla sold since 2011…Tesla owners use this to "charge" at work since most business that provide EV charging have installed J-1772 EV chargers.
Tesla owner's _TODAY_ can access all 4 networks - 3 of the 4 with factory included adapter - 4 of 4 if they purchase the optional $200 CCS1 adapter

Taycan owners (and everyone non-Tesla EV) can access 2 of the 4 networks (CCS1 & J-1772) natively
if you purchase a TeslaTap you can then access "slow" NACS 240V L1/L2 Tesla chargers (but not superchargers) (3 of 4 networks)
in the future you can purchase a NACS adapter and access the supercharger network (Ford owners can do it _TODAY_)

So you own a Tesla - if you want access to all 4 types of charging - you need to purchase the $200 CCS1 adapter and/or use the included J-1772 adapter

So you own a Taycan/Macan with J-1772/CCS1 - you can purchase a TeslaTap _TODAY_ and a NACS adapter in the future (Ford can do this today).

In the future you own a Macan with NACS native port - you're going to want the same two adapters Tesla owners enjoy - the J-1772 adapter and the CCS1 adapter

there is no "winning" here - because we do not have a universal charge port standard - there will always be a use case for an adapter…

NACS native vehicles benefit from a J-1772 adapter and CCS1 adapter to access non-Tesla chargers (fast or slow)
J-1772/CCS native vehicles benefit from a NACS-slow(TeslaTap) and NACS-fast (Ford-today, others future) adapter to access NACS fast chargers

the problem is we can't wave a magic wand and overnight upgrade all the existing charging stalls (fast or slow) to NACS charging cables - there will _ALWAYS_ be CCS1/J-1772 EV chargers in the wild - even _IF_ every Porsche sold today had a NACS native port on the vehicle - you'll want the J-1772 & CCS1 adapter in your frunk so you can charge anywhere…

NACS native EV's benefit from two adatpers (J-1772 & CCS1)
J-1772/CCS1 native EV's benefit from two adatpers (NACS slow (TeslaTap) and NACS fast (Superchargers))

there is no escaping having an adapter with you when away from home so you can access any charger you happen to encounter/need…

so honestly it's doesn't matter what kinda of port your EV has - you're going to need/want adapters to access the "other" charging network when you need to.

and it's going to be this way for at least 10 years…actually always, but it will be increasingly "remote" legacy EV chargers you'll be less and less likely to encounter but still possible…

my adapter(s) live in my frunk - and pull them out when needed - no problem - most of the time I'm charging at home - so I don't care - my home EV charging situation is "native" to my vehicle so I don't need adapters on a daily basis - only when road tripping or day tripping - which is way less frequent than daily usage.
This is an excellent summary write up! Thank you
 
 
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