Plug & Charge now available for Tesla Superchargers via Porsche Charging Service

[daveo4EV]

Can someone please explain the error in my thinking that Tesla Superchargers are the most hyped and least powerful chargers of the modern set of DCFC CPOs?

1. V3 cabinets (500VDC max) are 360kW shared across 4 units with potential site DC bus bar but still it’s 90kW per vehicle if fully occupied and 180 at 50%. Tesla have a fairly poor charging curve and thus these restrictions are not so noticed. Now, with other vehicles, charging there that have substantially more robustness to absorb power, these limitations will be very visible.
2. The elusive V4 cabinets (1000VDC max) are 1MW shared across 8 chargers (1.2mW for truck stations). They don’t support a DC bus bar thus each set of 8 will derate to 125kW if fully utilized.
3. The one and only V4 site in Redwood City still has dispensers covered up, theoretically to limit the potential derating. Also, I don’t foresee Tesla wanting to spend so much money upgrading their chargers to 1000 V when the only vehicle they sell that would be enhanced by. This is the cyber truck which has very limited sales. And with their amperage boost on V4 dispenser is on the three cabinets to 325 kW I feel they may see the problem as already solved for their ecosystem.
4. Handle overheating and derating is still an issue. Even on the latest Easter Edge race by Out of Spec they were poring water on handles. I do think non-Tesla suppliers of J3400 handles may have solved the cooling issues. To be seen on IONNA charging a 500+Amp NACS/J3400 vehicle that has a good curve.

easy one network most works most of the time

the other networks don't

the spec's dont' matter if the charging stall is broken or can't activate a session or you have to wait because of congestion - and there is often "enhanced" congestion - i.e. you wouldn't have had to wait for open stall if all the stalls were actually operational…

also you rarely if ever get the the actual max charge rate at the 800V stations - I can count on 2 hands the number of times I've actually experienced a true optimal 800V session - the vast majority of my charging session meander around the 150 kW rate or less due to a large number of variables…

I've owned an 800V EV since July of 2020 - I've gotten a charge rate of over 150 kW less than 10 times in well over 150 charging session - but I've gotten 0 kW charge rate at many many CCS stations that simply were non-operational…the CCS stations fail to operate entirely much much more often than they provide an enhanced charging speed…

you're focusing on theory - others are focusing on actual experience

the supercharger network provably scales and offers a better experience than a non-operational congested CCS stations with 2 of 6 stalls actually operational…

also the performance "advantage" of the 800V stations is completely lost if you have _ONE_ technical hicup - its very very very easy to lose 5-6 minutes fussing with what turns out to be a non-operational station…or setting up an account or having a charge not go through - or having a session timeout while trying to handshake - or simply moving the car to another stall…

the performance advantage of 800V stations is more perishable than the freshest of strawberry's - you have about a 10 minute window where the 800V session will be 'faster' than 400V stations - after that both types of stations offer similar if not identical charging speeds…and if you pull in at 30% SOC or above that window is even smaller…or your battery is at the wrong temp - or the stations is balanced…

800V stations have _ONE_ shot to offer an actual faster charging stop than 400V stations - the conditions for success are narrow and fraught with incompetence and enviromental conditions outside of your control…if you have to take a mulligan on an 800V charging session you've already lost in terms of over actual time spent stopped trying to charge an EV.

if you're pulling into a station at 40% or above SOC - there is _NO_ advantage in terms of charging speed - and I've seen many many EV owners do this…

the conditions for 800V charging to actually be "faster" are narrow, difficult to achieve, fleeting, and easily derailed.

the criteria for success must be measured in terms of: total # of times plugged into a 800V charging stalls - total # of times you actually achieved a "faster" charge rate…

i've done two road trips with my 2024 Macan EV - both published with data on this forum

• Nov. 2024 - 800V "success" rate - 20% "faster" - 80% normal or slower - 20 charging trials
• July 2025 - 800V "success" rate - 0% faster - 100% normal or slower - 10 charging trial

so on two separate road trips - where supercharging was not an option - so I was using pure CCS charging stalls most of which were EA stations offering 800V charging - 4 out of 30 attempts achieved faster than 400V charging speeds - or a success rate of…

4 /30 = 13% - 87% of the time the 800V CCS stations was no faster than supercharging

but that stat above do NOT include the CCS flaky-ness factor or the number of outraight failures of a given CCS stall/station being non-operational - which would make the "success" rate even less impressive.

consistent mediocrity beats flaky performance every time…

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[daveo4EV]

from my trip report when picking up the Macan EV from PECATL…

https://www.macanevowners.com/forum/threads/trip-report-im-peddling-as-fast-as-i-can-to-generate-electrons…-pec-atl-to-santa-cruz-in-a-macan-ev-turbo.17948/page-14#post-273395

20 charging stops - 2500 miles - NO SUPERCHARGERS (was not an option) - 4 charging session achieved a max charging speed greater than 400V/supercharger session - many many failed attempts

out of 20 real world trials - on a real world road trip - 4 'successful' sessions - 16 sessions at 800V stations that were no faster than supercharging…20% success rate - 80% failure rate in terms of being "faster" than a supercharger…

from my summer 2025 Road trip - https://www.macanevowners.com/forum...pacific-northwest-family-wedding.22048/page-2

10 800V charging stops from my charging table - zero charging session that achieved a faster charge rate than supercharging…100% failure to be "faster" because it was an 800V session.

my real world experience and data shows no statistically significant advantage in 800V charging sessions with actual charging speeds being similar or identical to supercharger speeds - and that's before you factor in the "failed" session count or mulligans when dealing with CCS stations…

my $0.02 YMMV.

 

[dbsb3233]

consistent mediocrity beats flaky performance every time…

I wouldn't say every time. It just depends. For instance, we drive between Denver and Las Vegas every other month. We're still on out first year of free EA so we're using it whenever possible. The EA station on I-70 at Ivie Creek UT rest area has the newer EA chargers. We've had nothing but perfect charges there. Max power the car will take for every point in the charging curve. But the other 3 EA stations we typically use on the route are the older chargers that have the usual hit&miss challenges. The best we usually get out of those is 173kw on a 150 charger. We can rarely get on a 350, and it's rare to get 200+ if we do.

But even when unable to get full power at EA, we're still usually getting more than the 135kw max the Macan will do at SCs. So we'd still usually favor EA (or Ionna now since there's 2 stations on that route) over SCs. SCs remain a welcome backup for us at this point. Knowing there's a backup in range helps in giving EA a try first, ironically. But again, it depends on the station, and perhaps the region as you've noted about the west coast.

 

[daveo4EV]

let's do a mental exercise - let's not focus on "speed" let's focus on reliability…

you pull into an empty parking lot…
on your left there are 16 V3/V4 supercharges - un-occupied - you can pick your stall - no congestion
on your right there a 4 EA CCS stations - un-occupied - you can pick your stall - but can't see the screens to see their status

you can plug in _ONCE_ and only once to achieve a charging session…

which direction do you turn the car?

based on my _PERSONAL_ experience with fast charging since 2012 - I'm turning left because the supercharger is more likely to work vs. the EA stations…neither option guarantees success - but one side has a clear advantage…

 

[dbsb3233]

let's do a mental exercise - let's not focus on "speed" let's focus on reliability…

you pull into an empty parking lot…
on your left there are 16 V3/V4 supercharges - un-occupied - you can pick your stall - no congestion
on your right there a 4 EA CCS stations - un-occupied - you can pick your stall - but can't see the screens to see their status

you can plug in _ONCE_ and only once to achieve a charging session…

which direction do you turn the car?

based on my _PERSONAL_ experience with fast charging since 2012 - I'm turning left because the supercharger is more likely to work vs. the EA stations…neither option guarantees success - but one side has a clear advantage…

Sure, if there's some rule that only allows me one chance to plug in or else get stranded, I'm picking the highest change of success over speed (or price).

Fortunately that rule doesn't actually exist.

In probably 300 lifetime EA chargers, I've only had to leave a station without a charge to bail out at another one maybe 5 times. Maybe on a quarter of those the extra fuss time would have made it faster just going to the SC first (if the 800V Macan were the car in all those). But the other 3/4th the EA would still be faster.

But again, that depends a lot on how good/bad EA is in the region you're traveling thru. The west coast sounds worse than what I've experienced in flyover country. In fact, many times we don't even have that choice. There's still so many V2 stations in WY, NV, SD, and other places out here that it's not even a viable choice in many places. Slowly seeing some upgrades (like Green River UT that really needed an EA backup for CCS drivers), but there's still a lot of V2s.

There is no right or wrong choice for everyone here. It just depends.

 

[daveo4EV]

choice is what's important here - and now we all have choices…

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