Can EVs beat Gas and Hybrids without a Tax Credit?

[Awaz]

Very thorough in-depth analyses as to why EVs are a better option. Very interesting, worth watching.

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[krissrock]

a lot of the hub bub is that EV sales are plummeting now cuz of tax credit going bye-bye in the US.

But they just completely ignore allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the other shit happening in the US right now. (gov't shut down, inflation, food prices, tarrifs, layoffs....you name it)
The car market has been in a slump and iirc, EV's were the only segment on the rise still...so imo, a lot of the crap out there is just a grift to get clicks.

i'll check out the video later

 

[dbsb3233]

Better option for some. Not the better option for others. It's highly dependent on one's situation (starting with whether one can install a dedicated AC charger where they sleep, especially on cheap residential rates).

There's too much attempt to apply a one-size-fits-all approach. We'll be in a mixed world for automobiles for at least another decade or two to come (EV + ICE + hybrid).

And by the time EVs becomes the lion's share of the market, robotaxis will be displacing much of the personal car market anyway.

 

[krissrock]

robotaxis will be displacing much of the personal car market anyway.

i'm highly doubtful of this.

 

[dbsb3233]

i'm highly doubtful of this.

Nobody knows, of course, but I do think it's likely we'll see robotaxis become perfected in a decade or two. Then usage will depend on how low they can get the costs without a driver. If it's say, half the cost of an Uber or taxi, and coverage+wait times get as good or better than Uber, I think many would see the cost savings vs $5k-$10k/yr for a personal car (vehicle, maintenance, fuel, insurance, etc).

If that happens, many 2-car households will go to 1-car, 3-car to 2-car, etc. Many others will still keep their cars but put fewer miles on them, extending their life. All that adds up to demand for new personal cars shrinking, perhaps significantly.

My guess anyway.

 

[Awaz]

Those who enjoy driving cars, especially the buyers of Porsche and other sports cars, won't be interested in a fully autonomous vehicle like a robotaxi.
The whole fun is in the driving.
So for most, a robotaxi would be just another version of getting an Uber or a Taxi, as we all use on and off, albeit autonomous.

 

[jwatte]

If you drive less than 250 miles a day, and live so that you can charge at home, an EV is the obviously superior choice.
Most people drive much less than 250 miles a day. However, many people feel that maybe they will drive 600 miles one day, and wouldn't it be nice if they could? In which case, fast charging is the solution -- but frequently they say "30 minutes fast charging once a year is such a bother" because, really, it's just easier not to have to deal with any change.

If you live in an apartment without designated parking, or the designated parking doesn't have 240V charging, an EV is much less attractive. This is the next big challenge to overcome for infrastructure. It's neither hard nor particularly expensive *if we want to* as a society. (In Northern states, many parking spots have electric outlets for engine heaters. It's already a solved problem!)

 

[dbsb3233]

Those who enjoy driving cars, especially the buyers of Porsche and other sports cars, won't be interested in a fully autonomous vehicle like a robotaxi.
The whole fun is in the driving.
So for most, a robotaxi would be just another version of getting an Uber or a Taxi, as we all use on and off, albeit autonomous.

Yes, car enthusiasts will still buy and own just as many cars as they always have.

But then there's the rest, for whom the car is more just a means of transportation. If a door-to-door roboride comes in at much less than the annual cost of owning a car, many will reevaluate the equation.

It really comes down to how much less a robotaxi will cost than a current Uber or taxi because of no driver cost, efficiency from computerized dispatching, and non-stop utilization of the vehicles. It will take significantly lower fares to realize the savings it would take for people to use it more vs owning their own car.

 

[CHP]

Self driving cars will change the way we use our cars. Imagine school runs can be done without you being in the car or going into the city without the need to look for parking. In London this already causes problems with Uber drives as they don’t have dedicated parking bays and just circling around adding to congestion. Eventually infrastructure will need to adjust. Long, but likely irreversible process.

 

[jwatte]

It really comes down to how much less a robotaxi will cost than a current Uber or taxi because of no driver cost

In San Francisco, Waymo costs more than Uber, but is still popular, for two reasons:
1. the Jaguar EVs are nicer than a typical Uber accord
2. people like not having to interact with a driver

 

[Petzi]

to the original question:
yes!
I will never go back. why?
i am faster (driving the „same“ car coming from ice turbo to ev turbo macan)
much more quiet
no pollution (did not expect to be so happy about this)
same range (or no significant difference)
charging at home / at work for 9 cents
driving ice is like watching b&w tv..

 

[dbsb3233]

In San Francisco, Waymo costs more than Uber, but is still popular, for two reasons:
1. the Jaguar EVs are nicer than a typical Uber accord
2. people like not having to interact with a driver

Yeah, I assume it will take some years to perfect and reach the economy of scale it will take to get the costs per drive down a lot more. We're still early in the cost curve.

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